Talk:Women

First post from 2009 (2005?)

Why, oh why, do most of the quotations on this page seem horribly stereotypical and misogynistic...? Pounce (Talk) 20:33, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

this  a terrible page   so anti woman  

I moved the following quote here. It is seem to be by an unnotable person. Please add it back if you disagree. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 08:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

• "Women have something in common with the Universe. That is they are both constantly expanding with time." ~ Richard Dias-Wanigasekera

What a dispicable collection of quotations on women! I came to this site looking for inspiration and instead, was enraged. Surely some notable people out there, past and present, have something more intelligent and more respectable to say about the fairer sex than we are baby-making machines. Napoleon... go figure.

It is a fact of life that men, even the most enlightened and egalitarian among them, are woefully ignorant of how consistently and universally women are discriminated against merely because they are women.

It is equally true that woman are consistently and universally ignorant of the psychological advantages they have by being born women, potential mothers of the future.

The bigoted suppression of a woman's talents because she is a woman is as ultimately futile as attempts to win so called 'equality' with men: men and women will never be biologically 'equal' - so it is time to stop gender-stereotyping and start judging each and every human being on their own merits and abilities.

I am proudly and humbly a woman. Shir-El too 22:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

PS This should remain a separate catagory if male 'aviators' are differentiated from 'men'. Shir-El too 22:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Use of Quotes

I'm using these quotes for a history project and they fit right in with my topic. However, I'd suggest that they add some quotes from Jaqueline Cochran, the founder and director of the WASP organization. Some Nancy H. Love quotes might be nice also. I think that these quotes would help any project on this topic..quotes always do. Any project on women pilots could use quotes like these.

And, on the contrary, These quotes bring out the admirable qualities in women and their accomplishments. These women achieved something that had never been accomplished before, and, ultimately, helped future women gain the well-deserved liberties we have today. Which is an amazing and inspiring accomplishment.24.131.136.96 22:14, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Cleaned up

Cleaned up format - but I agree with previous posters that the current quote selection has an emphatically hostile bias. Gordonofcartoon 13:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced

Moved here pending proper sourcing per current practice. Gordonofcartoon 12:53, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• The day will come when men will recognize woman as his peer, not only at the fireside, but in councils of the nation. Then, and not until then, will there be the perfect comradeship, the ideal union between the sexes that shall result in the highest development of the race.
  • Susan B. Anthony

• The only question left to be settled now is, are women persons?
  • Susan B. Anthony

• Women get more unhappy the more they try to liberate themselves.
  • Brigitte Bardot

• You see, dear, it is not true that woman was made from man's rib; she was really made from his funny bone.
  • J. M. Barrie

• The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run.
  • John Barrymore

• Women are nothing but machines for producing children.
  • Napoléon Bonaparte

• When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.
  • Elayne Boosler

• Women are most adorable when they are afraid; that's why they frighten so easily.
  • Ludwig Borne

• A woman past forty should make up her mind to be young- not her face.
  • Billie Burke

• A woman is but an animal, and an animal not of the highest order.
  • Edmund Burke
  • I think the Burke quote above is taken out of context. The source is the first part of his "Reflections on the Revolution in France". But in context he's criticizing the idea. The line (with context) is on pp. 42-43 here: https://earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/burke1790part1.pdf

• If a woman likes another woman, she's cordial. If she doesn't like her, she's very cordial.
  • Irvin S. Cobb

• Being a woman is a terribly difficult task since it consists principally in dealing with men.
  • Joseph Conrad

• Boys don't make passes at female smart asses.
  • Letty Cottin Pogrebin

• A boy dreams with a sword in his hand. A girl gives him purpose, a reason to draw it from its scabbard.
  • Bryan Davis, "Tears Of A Dragon"
  • Notable?

• Housework is what a woman does that nobody notices unless she hasn't done it.
  • Evan Esar

• Women are like elephants. They are interesting to look at, but I wouldn't like to own one.
  • W.C. Fields

• When a man gets up to speak, people listen then look. When a woman gets up to speak, people look then, if they like what they see, they listen.
  • Pauline Frederick

• It must be admitted that women have but little sense of justice, and this is no doubt connected with the preponderance of envy in their mental life.
  • Sigmund Freud

• I'm sorry Wendy, but I just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
  • Mr. Garrison, South Park

• A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's: she changes it more often.
  • Oliver Herford

• A woman has to be twice as good as a man to go half as far.
  • Fannie Hurst

• A woman's guess is much more accurate than a man's certainty.
  • Rudyard Kipling

• A woman is like an... artichoke. You have to do a bit of work before you get to the heart.
  • Steve Martin, The Pink Panther

• Women should be obscene and not heard.
  • Groucho Marx

• Whether women are better than men I cannot say- but I can say they are certainly no worse.
  • Golda Meir

• Ah, women. They make the highs higher, and the lows more frequent.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche

• Behind all their personal vanity, women themselves always have an impersonal contempt for woman.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche

• Women are considered deep - why? Because one can never discover any bottom to them.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche

• For the woman, the man is a means: the end is always the child.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche

• The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
  • Friedrich Nietzsche

• Women: You can't live with them, and you can't get them to dress up in a skimpy little Nazi costume and beat you with a warm squash or something.
  • Emo Philips, E=MO^2

• No woman ever hates a man for being in love with her, but many a woman hate a man for being a friend to her.
  • Alexander Pope

• I do note with interest that old women in my books become young women on the covers... this is discrimination against the chronologically gifted."
  • Terry Pratchett

• Women are like teeth. They are easily replaced.
  • Jasyn Randall

• In our civilization men are afraid they will not be men enough, and women are afraid they might be considered only women.
  • Theodor Reik

• Women would rule the world - if only they'd stop bitchin' about each other!
  • Chris Rock

• The girl also has the same heart as the boy. But they have more softness in their heart.If you show a little love with them, then they will give you a lot of love.
  • [[Besttarika]]

• There are no ugly women, only lazy ones.
  • Helena Rubenstein

• Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior.
  • Socrates
  • (Margaret Thatcher at least claimed he said this - [1] "I think it was Socrates who said long, long ago that when woman is made equal to man she becomes his superior, and I would not dissent from anyone as wise as Socrates.")

• A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.
  • Gloria Steinem

• In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist.
  • Gloria Steinem

• To varying degrees, all chicks are sluts - except for my mum, and I'm not sure about yours.
  • TB - Based on a SB Truism

• I hate women because they always know where things are.
  • James Thurber

• A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he does not love her.
  • Oscar Wilde

• All women become like their mothers. That is their tragedy. No man does. That's his.
  • Oscar Wilde

• How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being?
  • Oscar Wilde

• Men always want to be a woman's first love - women like to be a man's last romance.
  • Oscar Wilde

• There is nothing in the world like the devotion of a married woman. It is a thing no married man knows anything about.
  • Oscar Wilde

• Women are meant to be loved, not to be understood.
  • Oscar Wilde

• If you can make a woman laugh you can do anything with her.
  • Nicol Williamson

• Of all the rights of women, the greatest is to be a mother.
  • Lin Yutang

• A woman always likes to be on top, but it never lasts.
  • Anonymous

• The stages of a woman in her relationships with men: Good--->Decent--->Slut--->Bitch. Parents (initially) and men will most of the time be the ones that accelerate, decelerate or stop this trajectory. And the worst problem is that it is nearly impossible to go back to an earlier state.
  • Average Joe

• A woman is an angel at ten, a saint at fifteen, a devil at fourty, and a witch at forescore.
  • English proverb

• A woman's strength is in her tongue.
  • English proverb

Moved more here. Ficaia (talk) 06:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

• Please don’t repeat such poetry which is pictured by the red spots of kissing on the lips of beautiful women. Kunti, a rustic old woman is now knocking door to door to search for a job. She is beaten by her own sons.
  • Manmohan Acharya, Woman.

Misattributed quote of the Buddha

In this entry, the Buddha is wrongly quoted as saying, "Women, with their two-fingered wisdom [i.e. stupid], have a difficult time [understanding what I teach]." This paraphrase is taken completely out of context, however. If one were to read the sutta in question (SN 5.2, Soma), one would see that this is a line from Mara (the Buddhist equivalent of the Devil) who, desiring to make a bhikkhuni named Soma 'fall away from concentration,' voices an ancient bias, saying:

"That state so hard to achieve

Which is to be attained by the seers,

Can't be attained by a woman

With her two-fingered wisdom"

But Soma's response shows not only her wisdom, but counters this bias by replying:

"What does womanhood matter at all

When the mind is concentrated well,

When knowledge flows on steadily

As one sees correctly into Dhamma.

One to whom it might occur,

'I'm a woman' or 'I'm a man'

Or 'I'm anything at all' —

Is fit for Mara to address."

A rejoinder that, in the words of Bhikkhu Bodhi, "is a forceful reminder that enlightenment does not depend on gender but on the mind's capacity for concentration and wisdom, qualities accessible to any human being who earnestly seeks to penetrate the truth" (Discourses of the Ancient Nuns). The sutta is actually saying the opposite of what this misattribution is implying.

Quotes requiring additional source information

• Pleasure is like a food of the senses. Japanese women hunger for this food and seek to satisfy themselves by cultivating shunjo (sexuality)...They bring about the perils of weakening their body and mind and passing (their weakness) down hereditarily to their children. Although there are some that claim to be healthy, they are diseased...They suffer from hysterias, uterine illnesses, and neuroses...Women all over Japan will suffer from these traumas and pass down this peril to their children and descendants, preventing the development of our race.
  • On Japanese Women by Fukuzawa Yukichi

• Because both man and woman have roles indispensable for life, without them the world cannot endure even a day. Their capabilities are about the same, but men are generally stronger than women. If a strong man fights a woman he will always win.
  • An Encouragement of Learning by Fukuzawa Yukichi [2]

Z

• Women hold up half the sky.
  • Mao Zedong [3]

Merge Misogyny into Women

I recommend we merge both articles because:

• These quotes about misogyny are all about women and just as there is no page specifically for racism, or racists, just race, we could consolidate these into a single page. The pages for circumcision features sections for pro, con and neutral quotations, while the page for drugs consolidates, education about, medical, legal, and philosophical views of into a single page making the quotes easier to find.
• Maintaining separate pages for misogyny, women and female supremacy requires too much subjective categorization as to whether a quote ascribing X trait to women as a whole is misogynist or supremacist and none of the quotes specifically use either of those terms. CensoredScribe (talk) 03:27, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
• On Wikipedia, Misogyny and Woman (to which "Women" redirects) are separate articles. BD2412 T 13:50, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment also of note, Wikipedia doesn't have a page for female supremacy but does have pages for both patriarchy and feminism, feminism is defined as advocacy for gains for men in society, while with matriarchy women are in control of society, I believe that technically quotes simply stating women are superior with no comment on their position in society would be neither and fall more appropriately under supremacy. I'm also not sure what the difference between matriarchy and gynocentrism is, or whether it would be of benefit to Wikiquote to create a separate page for that concept as well, in keeping with Wikipedia. We also have a page for masculinity, but not femininity, which given is also the redirect for effeminacy appears more to do with cultural attitudes and aesthetic values than it does chromosomes. There is also, Men's liberation and Women's movements, though not Women's rights movement as there is with Men's rights movement, providing more pages to divvy up quotes between, should it be determined to be in our best interest to do so. Although it is not something Wikipedia recognizes, as historically children aren't themselves active in politics and lack the voting rights of adults in what appears to be every country, (depending on the varying legal definition of child), further distinctions could be made between women and girls as well, though typically, unlike their adult counterparts, boys and girls are grouped together under the term child advocacy by Wikipedia and not given further distinction. Also, unlike Wikipedia, the current name of this page is women, not woman, which I believe should be changed in keeping with Wikipedia as to to maintain equivalency. CensoredScribe (talk) 19:12, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Attributions

• The female defects – greed, hate, and delusion and other defilements – are greater than the male’s…You [women] should have such an intention…Because I wish to be freed from the impurities of the woman’s body, I will acquire the beautiful and fresh body of a man.
  • Gautama Buddha as quoted in Diana Y. Paul and Frances Wilson, Women in Buddhism: Images of the Feminine in Mahayana Tradition (Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 1979), p. 308; also quoted by Dr Bettany Hughes in The Telegraph (5 August 2015)

• I will not take final Nirvana until I have nuns and female disciples who are accomplished…until I have laywomen followers…who will….teach the Dhamma
  • Gautama Buddha as quoted by Dr Bettany Hughes in The Telegraph (5 August 2015)

This two quotes are incomplete and their sources don't state the original Buddhist text which they come from. Rupert loup (talk) 21:08, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Quotes requiting editorial work

• In crossing the river [from Saṃsāra to emancipation] ... crocodiles are a designation for women.
  • Gautama Buddha, Majjhima Nikāya 3.

• If it were not for women being admitted into [our order], my teachings would have lasted 1000 years, now they will not last 500.
  • Gautama Buddha, Dīgha Nikāya 3.

• Women, with their two-fingered wisdom [i.e. stupid], have a difficult time [understanding what I teach].
  • Gautama Buddha, Saṃyutta Nikāya 4.

• It cannot happen that a woman may become a Tathāgata, a Sammsambuddha.
  • Gautama Buddha, Aṅguttara Nikāya 3.14.

Already discussed in Talk:Gautama Buddha#On Women. Rupert loup (talk) 21:52, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Review help request

Hello greetings,

I had created a stub article named Aurat, wanted and want to expand it further. I had already given my justification of creating separate article Talk:Aurat#Intended article scope(further updated talk page comment today).

Some one deleted my earlier content claiming to be non notable and redirected the article page to women which is already overflowing beyond 134000 bytes. I am not sure the user who deleted my content checked my talk page comment.

For example today I wanted to add a relatively recent much debated quote from Pakistan ""Jo aurat hoti hai woh bewafa nahi hoti, aur jo bewafa hoti hai woh aurat nahi hoti’ (A woman is not a cheater, and the one who cheats, is not a woman)." Ref But more than this cultural experiences of Women are much associated with word 'Aurat', though I am not a old generation or far from being conservative but I do not want to suppress PoVs and life experiences do not match with mine. As student of south Asian studies I feel it would be justifiable to have a separate article for Aurat though I am not sure how much Wikiquote rules allow for the same.

This is a kind request to review possibilty for indipendent article for word 'Aurat'; if that is not at all possible I will start adding those to Main article Women

Please do keep me informed

Thanks and Warm regards

Bookku (talk) 05:48, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this should be discussed on the talkpage first. Where a proposed change is disputed, absent consensus for the change, the status quo ante must be restored. That is how a consensus-based process works. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 09:05, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Discussion about women-categories

See Category talk:Women --ო (talk) 10:02, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

singular versus plural

men redirects to man, but woman to women. Arlo Barnes (talk) 17:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Interesting observation! Any speculation of why this is? Ottawahitech (talk) 23:15, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Well, in one way we don't need to speculate. Various mostly IP users started the `women` page in mid-2004 (early quotes were not in praise of women). A few months later Ambivalenthysteria redirected `woman` there. BD2412 started the `man`-as-in-male/`Man`-as-in-human page in 2009 and Kalki made `men` as a redirect in 2012.

Simple happenstance can explain all that. My question is, does that make a motivating reason to keep the situation that way? Or should it be that plurals would — at least in the case of the four pages mentioned above — redirect to singulars (the humans==>human model) or the singulars to plurals (the cat==>cats model)? — Arlo Barnes (talk) 01:15, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I have no objection to either (the page currently contains 430 "woman" and 452 "women". And yes it would be nice to standardize with man/men. Ottawahitech (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

As a side note: I just noticed that People redirects to Human. So +1 for plural to singular. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Pussy protected

If Donald Trump can use the word Pussy then why can I not create a redirect to Female genitalia? According to the message box this page has been "indefinitely protected" by a ‎sysop since 2009.

Is it time to unprotect this page? Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Wikipedia has a separate article. Ficaia (talk) 12:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)