Wikiquote:Requests for adminship/Lemonaka

The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new topic on this or other appropriate talk page. No further edits should be made to this text.

The result was: Successful application. By clear consensus of the community, User:Lemonaka is now an admin. BD2412 T 13:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Lemonaka (talk · contributions) edit

Dear all my friends and editors. I believe it's the time for me to write an RFA. I have worked for English Wikiquote for a while, mainly on anti-vandalism work, anti-spam and something like that. I have imported WD.js for anti-vandalism work, discussing the banner of the Wikiquote, helping with the new method to fight against LTA (1RR&blocking) and they finally cooled down. When they attacked again a lot recently, I believe it's the time for me to give the community my last effort.

I'm active here nearly all days, so I can rapidly deal with vandals and trolls. I'm happy to answer question to newcomers, check my contributions on English Wikipedia Teahouse and we will get that. In all words, I'm ready for the challenge.

Regards. Lemonaka (talk) 05:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate's acceptance: self-nomination

Vote ends: 10 March 2023 05:28 (UTC)

Discussion edit

Support edit

Support Very helpful user, has good judgement, and has already tinkered with tools to help admins. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- absolutely. Helpful, friendly, smart. It's pretty clear to me we need more admins here. Thank you Lemonaka for volunteering. Antandrus (talk) 17:52, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Has a good amount of experience and has been helpful here. As Antandrus said, we do need more admins here and Lemonaka would definitely make a good one. Thanks! --Ferien (talk) 20:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I believe this user has demonstrated a willingness to help and that is much appreciated. I have seen some of the arguments regarding a lack of experience, but I don't find it compelling enough to outweigh the positives I see. ~ UDScott (talk) 01:36, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support — I agree with UDScott's assessments. ~ ♞☤☮♌︎Kalki ⚚⚓︎⊙☳☶⚡ 00:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose edit

Undecided: I am torn on this one. It was an easy Oppose for me since my first negative interactions with Lemonaka whom I met just as they arrived at the English Wikiquote (ENWQ) in October 2022. But now that Antandrus for whom I have great respect and virtually owe my wiki-existence to, says that their intuition leads them to believe that Lemonaka will make a good admin… This same intuition, I guess, that allowed Antandrus, to open up to me, a nobody, when I first met them here at ENWQ during my second year here.

For those here who do not appreciate what a unique phenomenon it was for me, just try to imagine what it is like for someone who is shunned by almost everyone who knew them before they were wiki-disgraced and being attacked by total strangers at every wiki-corner, to suddenly have a respected ENWP admin show kindness to them, someone whom they just happened to wiki-meet by chance and knew nothing about. Antandrus’s willingness to listen to me was unfathomable. To have such a person not only listen to you, but really listen to you is heaven. They know you better than you know yourself and they bring out the best in you.

My own intuition told me when I first wiki-met Lemonaka that they were at enwq for the single purpose of heading for an RFA as soon as they could. I imagined them arriving here directly from one of those forums, off or on-wiki, where all the power-grabber-wannabees gather and exchange tips with others just like them. But as I say, I am now torn.. —This unsigned comment is by Ottawahitech (talk • contribs) .

Comments edit

@Antandrus, @Koavf Please explain to a simpleton how you can support so enthusiastically a user who only joined enwq less than 6 month ago, with seemingly no other experience as an admin on any other wmf-project?

Why are there no sections for questions/discussion such as the one for User:Ferien? Ottawahitech (talk) 20:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ottawahitech, there was a general comments section where discussion could have taken place or questions asked. I've just added support, oppose and comments sections for this RfA. --Ferien (talk) 20:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry @ferien, am I missing something? what "general comments section" are you referring to? Ottawahitech (talk) 16:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because he's a very helpful user, has good judgement, and has already tinkered with tools to help admins. If being an admin on another project were a prerequisite to being an admin, then no one would ever be an admin. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ottawahitech, thanks for your question. I believe if being a sysop on another project is a must to become an sysop, no one can become a sysop. This is a simple logic question. However, I'm familiar with sysop tools since I was a sysop on miraheze for a while. I'm also familiar with policies on wikiquote, hopefully these can prove my trustworthy. Lemonaka (talk) 08:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ottawahitech - Instinct, intuition. I trust my own judgment, having been an enwiki admin for 18 years, and having run a large department in a high-tech firm for 20. Lemonaka has an abundance of good faith, wants to help, I've communicated with him off-wiki and everything just seems good to me. :) Antandrus (talk) 17:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User Lemonaka joined Wikipedia 4 months ago. With true respect to all that Lemonaka has done on this project, I would personally refrain from granting powers to such an user. - Emilija Knezevic (talk) 12:14, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thanks for your comments. Surely you have the right to cast your vote :) , here's my opinion I'd like to share.
Sysop is not something called power, it's just some tools using to help the whole project. If I was granted such tools, I will use them to do anti-vandalism works, save time for other editors. Elsely, I'd still do such kind of work, just reporting them on wikiquote:VIP and tagging page for deletion, prod or speedy. If they had lagged a lot, I just emailed some sysops on this project. Granting or not will not change my purpose on this project, and I really don't want to take it as a reward or something for my previous work.
TL;DR, I'm focusing on what I can do in future no matter granted or not. Lemonaka (talk) 14:04, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ask Lemonaka questions here edit

Why did you join ENWQ? Did anyone convince you it was a good idea? If so, why? Ottawahitech (talk) 19:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ottawahitech Hi, I joined ENWQ for the following reasons.
  I'm in a place where I had to use open proxy for editing WMF projects, I'm familiar with English, so I first tried with English Wikipedia, but my proxy was blocked there. So, if you check my previous edit history, I mainly edited on meta-wiki and wiki-commons, where my proxy was not blocked. Then I came to English Wikiquote, I found there are lots of things I can do to help, so I'd like to stay here and give the community all my efforts.
  Lemonaka (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  @Lemonaka: I followed your advice and checked your previous edit history, but what I see is different than the picture you paint here. Actually according to xtools analysis of your contributions you have made over 4000 thousand contributions to the English Wikipedia and only hundreds to the English Wikiquote. which makes me wonder why you did not apply for an admin position over there, or at Commons or at META instead of here? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  @Ottawahitech Thanks for your questions, Wikimedia commons and meta wiki has a lot of sysops, they are, in some points, having enough hands for work. However, my experience on these projects can help us in English Wikiquote. Lemonaka (talk) 17:32, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How can we trust that you will stick around (many admins do not) and help achieve a better Information source for the public and a more friendly working environment for volunteers? Ottawahitech (talk) 19:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I tried to be polite on answering all the questions, in Wikipedia, it's called to w:wp:civility. Yeah, I had to admit that no one, including me, will give others a smile all the time, but when I got frustrated, I tried to leave the place for others instead of having conflicts with others. Agree to disagree is useful for such situation.
  Lemonaka (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you believe it is possible to build better content here merely by reverting vandalism?—This unsigned comment is by Ottawahitech (talk • contribs) 19:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC).[reply]

No, it is impossible to build better content here merely by anti-vandalism. I'd like to agree with you on this point. But please remember, anti-vandalism is a work must be done, no matter with or without sysop tools. Anti vandalism can keep the project clean, but if you can contribute some quotes with high quality, it is also welcomed. They are both ways of contributions. If you have a plan for developing this project, we can have a discussion further.

Lemonaka (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What are your views on:

Censorship?
The Information Warfare Community & their influence on WP & WQ?
POV pushing that masquerades as NPOV pushing?
Do you think editors should be allowed to post anonymously here?
Do you think that thought provoking, revolutionary ideas should be hidden (censored)?
Do you think people should be treated as innocent until or unless proven guilty?
What do you think the phrase "using fair words to cloak foul deeds" means?

184.4.82.218 18:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@184.4.82.218 Although I'd like to answer all your questions, and I promised to the community to be kind and nice, after checking your contributions, I believe you are trolling across the projects. Especially User_talk:DeirgeDel made me really hesitate to answer any of these questions.
TL;DR, if you are sockpuppeting, please refrain from doing so. You may be evaded checking once or twice, but not for all the life. Lemonaka (talk) 17:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lemonaka, I would like to hear the answers to the questions by 184.4.82.218, whom you have disparaged without offering proof. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ottawahitech If you really cannot find why this is an obvious logout sock of a trolling user, then it will be more harmful for me to tell you why this is a sock. W:WP:BEANS applied. Lemonaka (talk) 23:07, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lemonaka: You say you are "familiar with sysop tools since I was a sysop on miraheze for a while":

Can you please tell us more about Miraheze: I see that the English Wikipedia does not consider it to be notable so has no article for it. My own attempt to add it to Simple Wikipedia in 2020 (just before I was blocked there) did not end up successfully. Only the Spanish Wikipedia has an article about Miraheze at: w:es:Miraheze. Is this Spanish article accurate in your opinion? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:00, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ottawahitech One of the founders of Miraheze was globally banned by WMF Office, considering this, if you read w:Draft_Talk:Miraheze, you will know why English Wikipedia doesn't want to include such a topic.
Miraheze is a wiki-farm, though most contents are fan-crafts content, but I recommend you to step away from since your behaviours here are highly unlikely to get a good comment there. Most miraheze-wikis are highly self-government, which means you are highly likely to collect blocks and then be banned globally. Get ready for yourself if you want to dig deep.
For Spanish Wikipedia, I'm es-0, so obvious that I don't know it's opinion. I may google translated it, but I didn't see the neccesity.
P.S. Not to reproach you, but there's another thing that I strongly recommend you -- some of your questions can be solved by reading yourself, just using the search in Wiki for policies, discussions instead of asking every policies one by one to others. We all have busy RL problems to solve. Lemonaka (talk) 00:20, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recuse:~~*Oppose~~: Reluctantly but precautionary on a W:WP:TOOSOON basis. Lemonaka has every sign of being a good admin. Indeed about a week ago I actually considered asking Lemonaka to stand but was concerned about them having some (hopefully temporary) health issues earlier per earlier in the year (see their talk page revisions) which would have made me very reluctant to ask them to take adminship which could become very stressfull and adverse to one's health. I was very tempted to support especially due to the massive load put on this Wiki through at least one sockmaster and the usual anon-ip suspects and what I personally, rightly or wrongly, feel was a collective failure of admins, local and global, to get topside of things quickly and decisively. (NB: I do appreciate each admin is a volunteer with RL considerations). I'm not too bothered about this (slightly naive given my consequential actions from it) but I'd consider myself hard-battered from deletion discussions on enWP. Lemonaka's been excellent in anti-vandalism work here and the tools would give them the ability to clear CSD's quickly which would be a benefit. However there is a downside with what I believe to be a low content/anti-vandal work ratio - which can sometimes be a problem. I also note what may be a hesitancy to become involved into VfD's. To be aboslutely clear I don't think Lemonaka has done anything wrong to cause me to vote oppose. If this was an enWP RFA I would (almost certainly) be voting oppose on a TOOSOON basis and while tempted otherwise in desperate situation that is how I choose to vote here. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 10:45, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After deep thought I have decided to withdraw my opposition and move to RECUSE. While I regard TOOSOON as important I am also aware Lemonaka is very likely to hit the ground running as an effecitve admin. The fact Lemonaka doesn't get my support vote does not diminish my moral support and and I very much admire the work they are doing and hopefully are likely to do on the English Wikiquote. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 00:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new topic on this or other appropriate talk page. No further edits should be made to this text.