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Welcome, newcomers and baffled oldtimers! This ts the place if you (a) have a question about Wikiquote and how it works or (b) a suggestion for improving Wikiquote. Just click the link above "create a new topic", and then you can place your submission at the bottom of the list, and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about who said what, go to the reference desk instead.)

Before asking a question, check if it's answered by the Wikiquote:FAQ or other pages linked from Wikiquote:Help. Latest news on the project would be available at Wikiquote:Community portal and Wikiquote:Announcements.

Before answering a newcomer's question abruptly, consider rereading Please do not bite the newcomers.

Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Wikiquote, (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the village pump archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.




Why haven't articles in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion haven't been deleted yet?Edit

Is this because the administrators haven't checked yet or think there needs to be a discussion for a deletion to take place? I'm asking this because one page I nominated for speedy deletion is an attack page that has no place on Wikiquotes and I'm infuriated it hasn't been deleted after a few days. PrincessPandaWiki (talk) 16:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Wikiquote is short on admins. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:06, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Draft page for teamsEdit

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here on Wikiquote (but worked on many articles in the German Wikipedia project already).

Is it possible to create a draft page here for a new article that stays for a few days (or weeks)? I'm currently working on an article in collaboration with other authors and it's getting difficult to exchange the latest updates. We are still in the research phase and don't want to publish the (very) incomplete list of quotes yet, so it would be smart to have something like a draft page that doesn't get deleted immediately. (The quotes we have so far, are all properly sourced.)

Thank you very much in advance. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 17:47, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Problem solved by creating a user sandbox. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 09:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

quote divisionEdit

I noticed a few articles I watch out for have all the quotes organised as if they no longer have the hr width 50% script, but its still there at the edit screen. What's the new script to account for this? --Eaglestorm (talk) 06:11, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in the conversationEdit

Translations from non-official sourcesEdit

Hi everyone!

I'm currently working on a draft page for Japanese figure skater Yuzuru Hanyu in collaboration with some fans, who are experienced amateur translators (native Japanese and English).

The main issue is that most of Hanyu's quotes are originally in Japanese and very few of them have been translated by official (and reliable) English sources so far. So we're forced to use non-official translations (like sourced fan translations) or translate them ourselves. The original Japanese quotes are all included and properly sourced. The translations get reviewed and discussed by four people from our team.

How does Wikiquote handle such cases? I created a header template to inform the readers about non-official translations on the page and ask to replace them by official ones as soon as they are available. (It might very well be that Hanyu's autobiographies and quotation books get published in English in the near future, since he's a famous athlete with huge international following).

Is that a smart solution? Thank you very much in advance! --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 16:18, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Your solution seems elegant enough. I've modified the template to change "official" to "verifiable." Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 16:04, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much for adjusting the template! I'm glad that the solution is fine. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Sourced, attributed, unsourced, and misattributed.Edit

I'm trying to align Wikiquote:Sourced and Unsourced sections, Wikiquote:Sourcing, Wikiquote:Quotability#Verification_factor, and Wikiquote:Guide_to_layout#Sections_(people). Please comment on whether this is the correct Wikiquote classification and treatment of quotes:
(1) sourced to author's work (appears without qualification),
(2) sourced to reputable secondary publication but not to author's work (appears as "attributed" in article),
(3) generally attributed but not sourced to author's work or reputable secondary publication (appears as "unsourced" on discussion page), and
(4) generally attributed but sourced to another author (appears as "misattributed" in non-author's article). Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Formatting repairs...Edit

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag

Anyone want do to do the tiresome, task of making sure all the bold and italic tags match up properly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:01, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Sounds like the work for a bot. Wikiquote:Bots Rupert Loup 09:31, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contestEdit

21:13, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

SheSaidEdit

Hello everyone. I would like to organise an effort to add more women entries on wikiquote, and add more quotes from notable women on wikiquote. The campaign will be calle SheSaid :) To be run before the end of the year.

I am currently starting a draft on meta m:Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid

Is there anyone interested who wants to join the effort ? Comments ? Criticisms ?

Anthere (talk)

@Anthere: Excellent idea. I don't have the bandwidth to drive this but ping me if you figure out where I can fit in. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Awesome ! Koavf, I know you are super active on wikipedia as well. You can probably help relay the message amongst community members in the English sphere. Please drop your name on the interested people list on meta. That would help when we start ! Anthere (talk)
YES! I currently have a potential entry that has been sitting in my userspace for some time: User:Ottawahitech/Kim Campbell. Problem is not enough hours in 24 :-) Ottawahitech (talk) 16:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I just added my first #shesaid edit to a new article that can use some love. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
I showed the age a bit of love, expanding the intro, formatting, and choosing a more specific stub tag. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:21, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Much appreciated. Ottawahitech (talk) 18:19, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
    • Now linked with wikidata, if you don’t mind. Cheers, --Omotecho (talk) 22:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Eh. I improved the m:Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid entry on meta. Can you please check it out and modify/add if you think it best ? Any super important page that should be linked there to help newcomers ?
Also, it came to my mind that it might be a good idea to host a webinar or two of Wikiquote discover tour. I am willing to host those in French and English on my zoom account if that can help. I got this request from a few people who I already talked to, and we never contributed to Wikiquote. They are willing to promote it to their communities but do not really know what to start with. Would not it be a good idea to take an hour to simply introduce people to Wikiquote ? Anyone willing to host such a session in the coming 2 months ? Anthere (talk) 11:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

@Anthere:, hi, I came across #SheSaid at Creative Commons webinar, and jumped in to translate your meta page into ja. Would there be any chance to attract more postcards with Asian figures, perhaps? I see WLW has another drive on Asian women, and why not postcards !
Eh Omotecho. Sorry, I fell into a black hole during and after the CC Summit :) I am getting back into activity !!!
Asian figures... yeah, why not ? Would you be able to come up with one or two examples of notable Japanese women with a good quote from each ? One with an entry on wikiquote and and one without so that we can do at least two postcards ? More would be better of course ! Would be great. We can do that but need your help... because no japanese speaking :) Anthere (talk)
The second thing might not fit into the context here, that instead of adding <translate> Tags, I went straight to translate it, which is, er, instead, better option is to add trans tag to smaller text blocks: I can tell more people would feel easier to add their language pages if trans tags are employed, and when you update en page, other language will be marked for additional translation. Do you happen to know anybody with tagging save? Cheers, --Omotecho (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I hate the tag system. I got desperate using it several times. So really can not help here sorry Anthere (talk)
I fear it does not work right now because it is a subpage... not sure... Anthere (talk)

Are there categories about women specifically on Wikiquote ? I could not really find an equivalent to https://fr.wikiquote.org/wiki/Catégorie:Personnalité_féminine_par_nationalité (female person by country). Does that exist or was it decided it should not exist ? Anthere (talk) 02:55, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

@Anthere:: enwikiquote has this category: Category: Women which currently houses 6 subcategories and 77 pages. BTW I see that the Italian WQ has added 100 new women articles since #shesaid started. That is impressive!
see:https://it.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:SheSaid#Nuove Ottawahitech (talk) 23:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
And..... look ! I started that page https://fr.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:SheSaid. We also have a decent number of entries, though not as good as the italiens :)
Then I got Covid and just spent 11 days in bed. Still very tired... Anthere (talk) 20:06, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubricEdit

Hello. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language.

Today the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees starts two calls for feedback. One is about changes to the Bylaws mainly to increase the Board size from 10 to 16 members. The other one is about a trustee candidate rubric to introduce new, more effective ways to evaluate new Board candidates. The Board welcomes your comments through 26 October. For more details, check the full announcement.

Thank you! Qgil-WMF (talk) 17:10, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikiquote RfC at MetaEdit

m:Requests for comment/Massive use of fringe sources and quote mining in articles on Islam in Wikiquote. —Justin (koavf)TCM 18:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I have just checked to see the status of this RFC and I see someone asking if wikiquote has been notified. Have we been notified? I assume this thread is official notification? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 20:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

About categoriesEdit

I have seen here that instead of subcategory we are using the main category. For example: Romantic drama films instead of American romantic drama films but I have also seen subcategories in some articles like Category:2010s American crime drama TV shows, Category:2010s American drama TV shows, Category:American drama TV shows, Category:Indian animated films. IP users are constantly creating more subcategories. This is causing confusion due to the use of use of different categories in different articles. Can anyone please explain and resolve this issue.--Saroj Uprety (talk) 17:46, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Another problem is the difference in Category:Actresses from the United States and Category:Spanish actresses. There are more categories with such differences.--Saroj Uprety (talk) 18:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
The truth is that we should be using the more specific subcategories (and the format of Actresses from Spain instead of Spanish actresses). The simple answer to why we do not have consistency is just that these updates or category creation has not happened yet. While we have some very active users, we just don't have enough to get to such tasks as these. Many of our regulars jump around the site, fixing things slowly or adding new pages. But we rarely have someone who focuses on a specific area long enough to fully address it. The bottom line is that we are still an evolving project that has just not gotten around to addressing this (and many other) issue. If you are so inclined, feel free to work on this as you are able. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes, it's annoying to correct the categories when I can't remember was it Novelists from England or English novelists, for example.--Vilho-Veli (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Not to mention when the 'UK' or 'British' enters the discussion. Yes, I agree that there is much regarding categories that may confuse many. The only thing I can say is that there remains a pile of work on this site and we as a community have yet to get to some of these topics across the board. Often they are resolved in pockets, but not consistently across the project. We just have to keep chipping away at it - and realize that many users do not have any interest in fixing this, instead preferring to spend their time on content. I try to work on categories every so often, but my attention is more often driven to other work items. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:52, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
(For films and TV shows)
Okay, I'll help with the category work but we should discuss which subcategories should be used. Creating more categories for a lesser number of articles is not a good thing in my view.
(For people)
In these categories (Category:Actors by country, Category:Actresses by country, Category:Politicians by country), differences can be seen. What if we make all the categories in the same format. Saroj Uprety (talk) 00:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Any help you can offer is much appreciated. I would agree that we should be smart about how many subcategories are added - I generally do not add them unless there is a good amount of pages that will qualify for them. I do not see the need when only a handful of pages will be in them. I would also agree that having a consistent schema for the people categories (especially those you mention) is a good idea. Thanks! ~ UDScott (talk) 12:01, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
@UDScott I have made some edits. If they seem fine then I will proceed with other categories. Saroj Uprety (talk) 13:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Looks good! Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:36, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

American judges or Judges from the usa? etcEdit

This a discussion that should not be decided so lightly because it will have ramifications for the integrity of wikiquote in the future. Is there no better place to discuss categories than at village pump? Is there no place to officially document the results of the discussion such as Help:Category. Just my $.02 Ottawahitech (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

As an example of the complexity of this issue, take Boris Johnson the prime minister of the UK. He is definitely considered a British politician, but since he was born in New York, he was also an American. However, I don't think anyone would describe him as an American politician? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Scientists from Greece or Greek scientists?Edit

The Category:Scientists from Greece has the following 2 subcategories:

A Greek Historian is not necessarily Greek (?). He/she is a historian that studies Greek history. A historian or a scientist from Greece is someone who was either born in Greece or spent many years(how many?) there, but does not necessarily study Greek history exclusively.

Am I making sense? Does anyone have anything to add to this topic? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 02:02, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on October 27Edit

-- Trizek (WMF) (talk) 17:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Question about Wikiquote as place for sourcesEdit

Hello. I don't really use Wikiquote but I think I could use it for my Wikipedia articles but I don't know if I can use it this way. I'm working on articles on mythology, such as gods, and there are many historiographic and folklore sources that describe them, but there are too many of them to put them all on Wikipedia. The question is, can I list all historical sources (specific quotes about a god or an object) together with scholars opinions + gods/objects in culture? Sławobóg (talk) 17:19, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

@Sławobóg: Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. So on Zeus, there would be a quotation and then there would be subsequent quotations in response or otherwise giving context to the initial quotation? —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

How to translate quotations?Edit

How does one include quotes made in another language? Who is authorized to do the translation. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Anyone can do the translation, but the original text should be there for checking, I think. There aren't many translations of Finnish proverbs, for example, so I've done those myself - dictionary doesn't help 'cause they are in dialects.--Vilho-Veli (talk) 19:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Sourced quotes/unsourced.Edit

Hi wikiquote I need some help.

Where can I start editing here?

I like topics of just about anything.

Any help would be great.

Also, I would like to create a few new pages if I could, but don't know what quotes and where I can source them. Thanks.

FcoonerBCA (talk) 01:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but probably the best place to start for someone new to the project is here. It is important to keep in mind that if a valid and verifiable source is not provided for a quote, it is likely to be removed and/or the page deleted. This means that you must provide a citation for the quote from either the original source or where it is quoted in a secondary source. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:42, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @FcoonerBCA: Welcome to wiki-quote, we sure could use more help here.
Some people like to read exhaustive documentation before contributing any content to a wiki. Others, like me, who has the attention span of a flea, prefer to dive right in and learn on the job. There are always typos to correct, add references when they are missing, add wiki-links when they exist, stub articles to expand, and talkpage discussions to observe and learn from experienced Quoatians.
The above are just my personal views. Other's miles may vary? Ottawahitech (talk) 02:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest - Round 2Edit

22:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Export Quotes from Goodreads?Edit

Has anyone investigated whether it would be possible to export Goodreads quote database to here?

Either via their API or manually? --Phytographer (talk) 11:04, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Phytographer: I think the direct answer to your questions are yes and no. My assumption is that someone who is savvy could more-or-less easily build a bot to do this if they have an API to export. Are you considering this? —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:40, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
@Koavf: Not savvy enough :( --Phytographer (talk) 02:31, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
@Phytographer: Sure but were you, what would your plan be? —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:43, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
@Koavf: Ideally a program that could talk to both APIs to scrape quotes from Goodreads and upload them here. Failing that, two separate bots to do each.--Phytographer (talk) 00:25, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Donald trump pageviews observationsEdit

I hope this type of posting is permitted here?

I was looking up pageviews for Donald Trump on wikiquote and to my surprise his page had a lot more views in months in 2018 and 2019 than he did just prior to the 2020 election. I also checked pageviews on the English Wikipedia for Donald Trump and over there the highest pageviews month was March 2016 followed by November2016,views in 2017-2020 look minuscule in comparison.

Are others also surprised? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 01:05, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Surprised but not shocked. It is odd. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:39, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for posting @Koavf. it is hard to gauge if a posting is of interest to the audience here, since many postings do not get a response. So at the risk of boring more people here is another statistic that I find interesting. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Community consensus needed for big change in 2021: please readEdit

Per m:Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid, I am proposing that

  1. At least 183 of our quotes on the main page in 2021 be from females
  2. We feature a link to m:Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid with all girls' and women's quotations

Please show your support or opposition below, along with any other commentary.

SheSaid group: @Anthere, Nattes à chat, Saroj Uprety, Shoodho, Yamen, Adoscam, Dfertileplain: @Yasield, Islahaddow, Camelia.boban, Omotecho, Shanluan, Sunday Tonics, Eunostos: @Rosiestep:

I'm proposing leaving this discussion open until December 15 and closing it with a little over two weeks to start the new year and arrange female-derived quotations. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

  • I'm not terribly keen on artificial quotas. Any editor here can focus on creating pages for female subjects, or adding to those pages, and can propose worthwhile quotes from those subjects for inclusion on the main page. BD2412 T 05:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Aren't all quotas artificial? —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:23, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
  • This is a serious challenge you are suggesting Koavf. 50% representation over the 2021 year. Tough challenge I guess, but eh... I am always in for a challenge. Do you seriously think it achievable ? I am never too excited by quotas myself, but my feminist friends tell me that it actually helps to get the engine started. So why not.... In any cases, I am in a big support for the creation of a list of female-derived quotations from which we could more easily dig best quotes. I am also interested in a list of selected good entries about women themselves. Anthere (talk)

@Koavf: On a related note, I just came across an article about a famous woman that has been tagged for deletion at wikiquote: Ann Landers. I am sure quotes can be found for this syndicated column writer who responded to readers questions for over 50 years (according to Wikipedia). How can we save this important article? Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 03:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

On another related note... Camelia propose to host a webinar in the next few days, to explain Wikiquote to anyone interested. Would be lovely to have other experimented members of wikiquote be there. If interested, we are asking you what would be your favorite timeslot on doodle. https://doodle.com/poll/p48ypwnffszhu8e6 Cheers. Anthere (talk) 10:38, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Should we say female when we mean woman?Edit

I know many simply dismiss this as political correctness. However, I feel very strongly about this issue. I believe that if we honestly want to create an inclusionary atmosphere in wikiquote that values women and their contributions, we should stop caliing women females

My $.02 what is yours (even if it is worth more than mine please). Ottawahitech (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm confused by the thinking here: when I use "female" it's in a way to be inclusive of girls and women. If there are contexts where I am talking about female persons who are adults (i.e. only women, not girls), then I would likely use "women". Is there a better way to be inclusive of female persons who aren't women? What would that word be? —Justin (koavf)TCM 17:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
@Koavf, thanks for responding. Yes, I agree this is a problem. How about using the term women/girls instead of using fem*** to describe this group? If we do not get into the habit of doing so, how will we cagtegorize people such as Ben Barres or Murray Hall who were born female but I doubt many would call them women? Thanks in advance to anyone willing to contribute to this thread, Ottawahitech (talk) 22:29, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
As I wrote earlier at Talk:Girls: "The nounification of the adjectives male and female, particularly with reference to people, strikes me as a reifying influence. (Consider how some contemporary news reportage refers to ordinary or upstanding people as men and women (rarely ladies and gentlemen anymore) but refers to criminal suspects and perpetrators as males and females — overtly dehumanizing the 'undesirables' by employing terms that apply as well to brute animals.)" Note also that Wiktionary observes that some find it dehumanizing to refer to women as "females", especially in non-technical contexts. ~ Ningauble (talk) 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

webinarEdit

The webinar to learn about Wikiquote will be hosted this SUNDAY 15th Nov at 6pm CET. Links to attend

We will be doing live using StreamYard! I look forward understanding more about Wikiquote. I hope some of you will be here ;)

Anthere (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Need more eyes and viewpoints at Ann LandersEdit

Need more input at Talk:Ann_Landers#Deletion. Thanks in advance Ottawahitech (talk) 18:41, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Call for insights on ways to better communicate the work of the movementEdit

ELappen (WMF) (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2021Edit

The 2021 Community Wishlist Survey is now open! This survey is the process where communities decide what the Community Tech team should work on over the next year. We encourage everyone to submit proposals until the deadline on 30 November, or comment on other proposals to help make them better. The communities will vote on the proposals between 8 December and 21 December.

The Community Tech team is focused on tools for experienced Wikimedia editors. You can write proposals in any language, and we will translate them for you. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing your proposals!

SGrabarczuk (WMF) 05:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@SGrabarczuk (WMF): It seems that this year's wishlist has a category for Wikidata, Wikisource, and Wiktionary projects proposals, but not for Wikiquote. Just curious why that is? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
The answer is pretty simple: because we haven't received a sufficient number of submissions. Currently, if there's an idea for Wikiquote, it goes into Miscellaneous. There has been no need to increase the number of categories. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@SGrabarczuk (WMF): Thanks for replying on Wikiquote. Since there are boxes for Wikidata, Wikisource, and Wiktionary projects, how about a box for other small projects on the Community Wishlist Survey 2021 page? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Do we have template editors?Edit

Can we import w:wp:templates from the w:English Wikipedia? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC) Do we have template editors on wikiquote?

Please see: Template talk:Theme-stub? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I am very reluctant to do any importing: it results in a lot of dependencies and headaches that almost never make it worthwhile. I don't understand what the request is, tho: What am I to be importing from en.wp? —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:22, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Importing templates from enwikiEdit

Do we have anyone who can import template from enwiki. I believe w:en:Template:Category TOC would be very useful for large categories that take up several pages? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:25, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I recommend against that because 1.) I don't think the template is useful, 2.) if anything, this should be a change to the MediaWiki software, and 3.) the following are the dependencies of the template (not to mention the dependencies of those dependencies):
  • MediaWiki:Toc
  • Template:=
  • Template:Category TOC
  • Template:Category TOC tracking categories
  • Template:Category TOC/doc
  • Template:Category other
  • Template:Collapse bottom
  • Template:Collapse top
  • Template:Documentation
  • Template:Documentation subpage
  • Template:High-use
  • Template:Main other
  • Template:No redirect
  • Template:Ombox
  • Template:Purge page
  • Template:Sandbox other
  • Template:Shortcut
  • Template:Shortcut/styles.css
  • Template:TOC bottom
  • Template:TOC top
  • Template:Tl
  • Template:Tl2
  • Template:Yesno
  • Module:Arguments
  • Module:Documentation
  • Module:Documentation/config
  • Module:Documentation/styles.css
  • Module:Effective protection expiry
  • Module:Effective protection level
  • Module:File link
  • Module:High-use
  • Module:Message box
  • Module:Message box/configuration
  • Module:No globals
  • Module:Protection banner
  • Module:Protection banner/config
  • Module:Redirect
  • Module:Shortcut
  • Module:Shortcut/config
  • Module:String
  • Module:Transclusion count
  • Module:Transclusion count/data/C
  • Module:Yesno
Importing 44 templates and modules, their documentation, and all of the dependent templates and modules for what benefit? Just so someone won't scroll a few pixels? —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:29, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Any ideas how to traverse through pages of large parent categories? Currently one must click through "next" several times to find a category that is not at the start of the alphabet? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:37, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think there's any consensus against importing but I personally will not do it for anything complex and anyone who takes the responsibility should ensure that all the relevant sub-modules, sub-templates, and documentation are imported as well and are properly categorized. If someone else is willing to do all that, then God bless him. It's just not worth the effort. —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:57, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  • See Template:CategoryTOC (as used at Category:Author stubs for example). It has been around for years and works fine. If you really want a more complicated template I offer this advice: If you do not know how to maintain it then leave it alone. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:41, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion of Wikiquote at WikipediaEdit

A discussion ongoing at the Wikipedia village pump proposes various diminishments of the role of Wikiquote on that project, if anyone is interested. It largely originates from the existence of a questionable page here, OpIndia, containing quotes from the subject media outlet that are negative towards Wikipedia. I question whether we need such a page. Cheers! BD2412 T 01:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Articles created by socksEdit

What is the WQ policy relating to articles created by sockpuppets and containing clearly one-sided inflammatory quotes from sources widely considered to be, for want of a better word, nutcases? 1998 Coimbatore bombings is an example. - Sitush (talk) 07:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, the OpIndia article referred to by BD2412 above is another. - Sitush (talk) 07:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

  • By my count, the editor in question has created 346 pages here, which I have listed at Wikiquote:Administrators' noticeboard/November 2020 sockpuppet investigation. BD2412 T 08:00, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • So they are not routinely deleted. Thanks. People to watch out for in those articles include Elst, Frawley and Goel - all widely considered to be right-wing Hindu nationalist extremists. - 146.200.49.138 08:13, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Oh, and Arun Shourie in his pre-21st century guise is another (he has since disavow many of his earlier views). - 146.200.49.138 08:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Above ip was me. See also this sock discussion. - Sitush (talk) 08:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Rajiv Malhotra is another Hindu extremist that they are using. - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • And the Nupur J. Sharma article is the editor of the aforementioned OpIndia who in many countries would face legal action for incitement of religious hatred. - Sitush (talk) 09:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • NB: I am not outright saying none of these people should be referred to on WQ, just that there is a fairly evident massive POV thing going on and it seems to be flying under the radar. - Sitush (talk) 09:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
  • The above user in question is a right-wing Hindu nationalist extremists who try to spread his propaganda by promoting pro- Hindutva and Islamophobia articles. Many users have reported him in the past, including me as you can see here and here. Even if the user made edits in many Wiki projects, he never made a single edit on English Wikipedia. Besides that, a user named Vilho Veli has a long career of adding Wikiquote links of the pages created by this user to Wikipedia . I think this means the user (or IP) may be either blocked in english Wikipedia nor doing a tag team works with Vilho Veli. If we have a policy here that allows us to delete the pages created by such users it would have been great.- Akhiljaxxn (talk) 10:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Vilho-Veli account has been globally locked but, yes, they are already back under another name. - Sitush (talk) 12:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Some additional info here. This will affect more than the 346 articles noted above. I am mystified as to how they have got away with so much here - it is blatant. - Sitush (talk) 12:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
      • It is exhausting and confusing keeping up with all of the back and forth over these Hindutva entries and there is a small moderation team here. —Justin (koavf)TCM 12:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
        • I realise that it is our of control. All the more reason to stop the driving of traffic here from other projects. These issues, even some of these specific accounts, have been reported previously. - Sitush (talk) 12:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
          • That seems excessive: some areas of this quotation repository are bad, not all of them. And more eyes makes bugs shallow, so having more WMF editors here would be helpful. —Justin (koavf)TCM 12:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
            • Not going to happen. I have spoken to lots of en-WP people over the years about WQ and almost all think it is pointless because the scope and organisation is too vague. And when people are ignored when they file valid concerns about pov etc, it just reinforces the feeling of contempt. - Sitush (talk) 12:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
I am disappointed that your go-to solution isn't "how can we fix this and make it better." But, instead, is "let's walk away from this." Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
I am disappointed that you personalise this. It is a systemic issue of long standing and I am far from the first to raise it yet nothing seems to change. - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
@Sitush: What policy changes would you suggest? BD2412 T 00:08, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
@Sitush: Thank you for visiting wikiquote. I hope you came here to help us improve.
Do wikiquotiens believe that articles created by sockpuppets and containing clearly one-sided inflammatory quotes from sources widely considered to be, for want of a better word, nutcases should exist here?
I can't speak for all of the great contributors here, but here are my own newbie views:
  1. Why can't sockpuppets create an article, as long as they create a decent one, or one that can become decent with help of the community?
  2. Who decides who the nutcases are?
  3. Who decides whether a quote is inflammatory?
  4. If contributors feel that an article is one-sided, is there a reason that prevents them from adding quotes to counter-blance?
I invite you and others who want to see wikiquote improve to the talkpage of OpIndia to decide what to do about that specific article. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

BD2412, it is difficult to get to grips with what policies even exist, so random does it all seem. Would the Twitter quote at Amarinder Singh accord with them? If so, why? And if not, why? - Sitush (talk) 05:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Re the Twitter quote at Amarinder Singh, I would think not, unless it was shown to actually have been quoted in another source. I do think that we should have a strict rule against reporting tweets that were not otherwise quoted or published, since there is no filter for either quality or significance. BD2412 T 05:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Your thoughts coincide with my instincts, although the way you phrase them suggests they are not actually current policy even though it seems blindingly obvious they should be. Now extend that slightly: is it acceptable to include here anything that has not been quoted by a third-party independent print media source? Not just tweets (and not retweets or similar counting as "quoted"). - Sitush (talk) 05:52, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Bearing in mind that Wikiquote:Quotability is a guideline rather than a policy, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we can't quote anything that has not been quoted by a third party. If an unquestionably highly notable figure like Abraham Lincoln or Albert Einstein wrote a letter or an article that has been authenticated, and an editor here found a particularly well-worded passage there that has never been quoted but was relevant to one of our covered topics, I don't see why we would prohibit that offhand. BD2412 T 06:43, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
OK, in that case this project will be irredeemable unless you insist on some priori consensus being formed at a central noticeboard. A contributor's opinion is subjective, arbitrary and not necessarily in accord with the wider world. In other words, you leave the project wide open to exactly the type of extremist POV pushing that has gone on here for years. Anyone can quote anything, including a tweet from an official/verified account such as the one by the aforementioned Amarinder Singh, who is a publicly elected official in the world's largest democracy. - Sitush (talk) 07:04, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
You are, of course, welcome to propose policies. I would support a ban on tweets unpublished in reliable sources. BD2412 T 15:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I will not be proposing anything. I have no real desire to be involved with this cesspit and was merely trying to be polite in responding to your query. You have stepped round the cause of the problems here, just as other people gave had similar experiences in the past. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I would advise that calling this project a "cesspit" is inappropriate behavior. BD2412 T 15:58, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear BD2412

I have not joined the discussions as I am too busy.

The whole discussion is full of personal attacks and full of false claims.

It is obvious that I am not related to the locked account of Vilho.

Editor interaction tool proves nothing, Vilho is very active on wikiquote and shows overlap with almost any user on wikiquote.

Claiming such an absurd thing, as they do, is disingenuous.

I have also never abused sockpuppetry. I never had two illegitimate accounts at the same time. See WP:VALIDALT and WP:FRESHSTART.

I have just one question. Is an extremely spurious claim, based on misleading claims about edit interaction tool, when the other user is basically a wiki gnome who edits all articles that were recently edited at wikiquote by any other user, not a form of harassement? This locked user was on wikiquote a wikignome who edited all articles that were edited by any other users on wikiquote. As I said, claiming such absurd thing, and forum shopping it, as they do, is disingenuous. Editor interaction tool proves nothing, Vilho is very active on wikiquote and shows overlap with almost any user on wikiquote.

I think it is very, very obvious that I am not that locked user, and anybody who put the type of time and effort in as they did, would have found. This makes it disingenuous.

I believe this kind of spurious claims and personal attacks is a form of harassment and I want to know if there are rules about it, and where to complain.

I kindly ask you to not call me a sockpuppet and kindly ask you to remove the sockpuppet designation.

The whole discussion is full of personal attacks, bullying, and full of false claims. A lot of the discussion is personal attacks, is disingenuous, contains smears and false claims, and lacks civility.

Unfortunately, I think that the list page you made only encourages more bullying and hounding, and gives the impression that they are "right".

The IP that has just commented is a sockpupet of User:Xsaorapa another user known for having extreme biases , and from reading talkpages etc they are also known for abusing NPOV, censoring and defaming any pov that they don't agree with. That IP has been known for hounding me, and his socks at Wikipedia were known for extreme pov pushing and BLP violations.

I have responded with a request that they address their concerns on Wikiquote directly, and not by email, as no private information has been implicated. BD2412 T 17:32, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, if the IP they are referring to is the 146.200.49.138 further up this thread, they are way out there. I said it was me, logged out accidentally on the android app, and I think most regulars on en-WP would both recognise it as me + vouch that I don't sock. - Sitush (talk) 18:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata descriptions changes to be included more often in Recent Changes and WatchlistEdit

Looking for a source of a quoteEdit

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask a question. But I'll ask anyway.

I am trying to find the origin of a quote attributable to both Shakespeare and Oscar Wilde. Here is the quote: "And he goes through life, his mouth open, and his mind closed". I've see it in dozens of websites -- not Wikiquotes. But I never see a source. I can't seem to find a source. Most of the time, the quote is attributable to Shakespeare. Sometimes to Oscar Wilde. I would like any help in finding where it came from.

Thanks,

Paul

The earliest version I can find is from E. M. Forster, in The Nation and Athenæum, Vol. 34 (1923), p. 512, writing on Jane Austen: "I read and reread, the mouth open and the mind closed". BD2412 T 15:48, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


Thank you.

Paul