User talk:Cbrown1023/archive2

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Thanks for the welcomesEdit

Thank you for joining the Welcoming Committee, not just literally but also effectively as you've been doing for the past few weeks. Since we're welcoming all new registered users and catching new anonymous users as we can, I really appreciate the assistance! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I'm on the Welcoming Committee and the English Wikipedia and frequently welcome users on Meta as well, so I'm used to it. :) If you need anything, please post a message on my talk page (even if it is something boring like welcoming the new users from the New user log). :) Cbrown1023 talk 03:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I just wanted to second Jeff's thanks, and point to you something you may not have known about: the new user log. It lists all new users, and it's what we usually use to see new users (instead of just happening to catch their registration on Recentchanges). Generally, any long run of red "(talk)" links means that those users haven't been welcomed. You shouldn't feel obligated to welcome everyone, but I just figured I'd point you to this, if you didn't know about it. —LrdChaos (talk) 03:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks :) Cbrown1023 talk 03:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I started the campaign to welcome all newly registered users in March 2006 (and retroactively added everyone who registered since February 2006) because I saw it as a fairly simple way to ensure that everyone who used a username while editing would get one in-your-face "new messages" notice that revealed a set of useful links that they would (hopefully) read, and would at least be able to be tersely directed to if they made edits that showed a lack of awareness of Wikiquote's practices. It seemed to be a cheap investment for a potentially large gain. I believe it has paid off, as we've had plenty of registered users who manage to assimilate these practices or show other signs of having looked at them, while so many anons still routinely fail to follow even the most basic, general wiki guidelines. But I can't know this for sure, of course.
LrdChaos and I seem to be the two main editors who do this Special:Newusers-based welcoming, although others seem to pitch in from time to time. (Aphaia and others follow your Special:Recentchanges-based welcoming.) I'd love to have more people covering all new users; not only do we get as many as 50 new users a day sometimes, but also, I'm not especially happy that my huge edit count is perhaps 40% due to these welcome messages. (Some day I hope to run a bot to do this, as long as the message includes a clear pointer to specific users ready and willing to help newbies.) But every contribution through whatever means helps the cause. I also appreciate your efforts to welcome anon users, since they have been clearly "under-welcomed" by this strategy. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
One of the main reasons that I welcome IP users is because they don't have an account yet. I feel that one of the main things we should do is get new users and then make sure the new users feel welcome. I noticed (on RC Patrol) that most of our users are IPs, I think we should try greatly to change that and have more people get accounts. I'm planning on importing the w:Wikipedia:Why create an account? page so that the anons can see the benefits. Cbrown1023 talk 00:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Cbrown1023. Welcome to the Welcoming committee ;) Have fun! --Aphaia 14:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. :) Cbrown1023 talk 00:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


Thanks. BenAveling 21:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Cbrown1023 talk 22:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Grey's AnatomyEdit

Just figured I'd let you know that I reverted your split of Grey's Anatomy. I explained by at Talk:Grey's Anatomy#Split reverted, overquoting, and I'd be more than happy to offer more explanation if I wasn't clear the first time. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's clear and understandable. Cbrown1023 talk 21:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Quick off the mark!Edit

My that welcome came quickly. Thanks.--Cato 19:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Thanks for the welcome! I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

  1. Is it permissible to copy/paste intro information from Wikipedia (with fixes to links and such)?
  2. Is there anything like "featured content" on Wikiquote? I'm looking for a great example page.
  3. Is there some reason the "redirect" quick text button does not appear in Wiktionary (next to the "bold", "italics", etc squares)? I've created a few redirects today by hand and hope they don't go against a guideline of some kind.

Thanks! --Fang Aili 17:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

  1. It depends on the circumstances, and if you do it, you must copy the history from the page and post it on the talk page or an article subpage because of w:GFDL reasons. What types of instances are you talking about?
  2. No, there isn't featured content as of yet. However, we have a listing of article templates that show you what you should do for different article subjects.
  3. There isn't a redirect button because there just isn't. Redirects are frequently used and there is no problem using them, Wikiquote:Templates#Redirect pages has more information.
Feel free to contact me again if you have any more questions or problems. Cbrown1023 talk 20:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Re #1, I took the intro from Wikipedia (w:Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories) and basically inserted it here. I knew there might be some copyright issues, but I'm not certain on the details.
Thanks for the answers to the other questions as well, that helps. --Fang Aili 20:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

historical logs on commonsEdit

Hi, Cbrown1023 thank you for your works. But I am afraid you stepped beyond a limitation; you tagged them with "copyrighted by the Wikimedia Foundation". But in 2003 there was no policy about Wikimedia Foundation and its property, specially about logo. And those creators therefore showed no clear intention to give their copyright to the Foundation (it was then a paper-entity), how did you know they were willing to make such gifts? "They are good people so they should have done so, if they would have been asked" is persuasive but not a good argument unless you are in a position to legally speak on their behalf. --Aphaia 17:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

But it doesn't matter... no matter what they are now licensed to the WMF, because they are different images in a different file location. I had to save them locally on my computer and then re-upload them, so technically, they are new images and are now property of the WMF. Cbrown1023 talk 17:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
If that is not true... then what do you think would be a better way to describe the licensing? Cbrown1023 talk 21:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
One cannot expect the assertion of a copyright to stick unless one has the right to assert that copyright. Only the creators of the relevant images can legally assert a copyright. Also, the copyright is for the illustration, not for the specific format or file that contains it. (Otherwise, I could take a picture of someone else's artwork, assert a copyright, and sell it without permission. This shouldn't be hard to see as very wrong.) Just because something has been placed within Wikimedia works does not give anyone in Wikimedia a right to assert any copyright. Uploaders' assertions of licenses are only as good as their right to make those assertions, which has nothing to do with the fact that they uploaded the material. We must be very careful and clear on this. That's one major reason, I think, that WMF is getting much more strict about ensuring every image is properly tagged with a specific claim from the uploader — we have someone to block and/or disavow if their assertions turn out to be meaningless. ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I meant in the way that my computer changed it when I downloaded and re-uploaded... cause that's just what it does. Cbrown1023 talk 23:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Before I started, they weren't tagged as authorized at all, so I remain open to suggestions on how we can fix all this. If someone wants to check with the Office on how these should be handled, that's fine too, because it's obviously not going to be acceptable to delete them all. Cbrown1023 talk 00:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You could have simply left them, asking their creators to give license information. As for Commons logos, I recommend you to talk with Commons folks how to deal with misinformed licence data, since you are not the person in charge of giving the proper license information. See m:Wiktionary/logo/archive-vote-1, logo should be Wikimedia property under its copyright, but in the discussion phase not every editor accepts this idea so your "copyrighted" tagging may have conflict with their original author. You put yourself in this mud and I daresay no one asked you to do so.
This kind of deed is what I meant recklessness and immaturity; you seemed not to know yet to distinct sensitive issues and other casual issues. Also your argument "I once saved it and it is technically different from the others" cannot be acceptable as JeffQ argued properly on the above. Your saving are even not "derivatives" but simply copy of the original materials and still the properties of their original authors.--Aphaia 05:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
As an experienced contributor to another project who has just recently come to this one, I am troubled by the tone of this comment, which I came across after reading through the RfA. I have not voted in the WQ RfA because I am a new contributor here but I have worked with Cbrown1023 as an administrator on WP and he has consistently done a superior job and I would recommend his adminship here as well, without reservation.
The matter at issue here involves a highly technical and complicated area of copyright policy. This specific situation is hardly a straightforward one. There do not appear to be any written guidelines on this issue either on this project or others and Cbrown1023 was doing his best to regularize the situation. The proper solution to the current dilemma is not obvious to me—and I am a corporate litigation attorney with 15 years of experience—and thus far no one has suggested one. If Cbrown1023 arguably made a mistake in addressing the issue, this could and should be explained and the mistake corrected in a reasonably polite fashion. Ascribing "recklessness and immaturity" to a good-faith effort to adjust copyright/licensing tags strikes me as uncivil and as potentially having the result of turning a technical dispute into an interpersonal one. Newyorkbrad 20:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
As I have said, I meant it in a differant way than how it came out and you must forgive me for speaking incorrectly out of haste. I have problems with your comments. I think that I show maturity by the fact that I am not just shoving this problem to the side for someone else to cleanup (you seem to be against this, especially my policy making ideas). You seem to like to take things slow and push them aside for others to complete, I am not that way. We are a community, and as such, need guidelines and policies to make discussion and actions easier and more productive. A lack of action and policy shows a lack of care and is very negative. Just so you know, the images are not properties of the given users, they have never been copyrighted and therefore belong to the authors under the GFDL, Wikimedia is a copyrighted trademark, as is the name "Wikiquote". So, technically, anything that contains that name is illegal unless it is used under the discression of the Wikimedia Foundation, or the copyright holder of the name, if not the same.
Furthermore, I believe I showed boldness not recklesess, and that is not bad, it shows boundaries and allows others to learn, if we are all calm and stayed within tight boundaries, nothing would get done. I would admire a user and person more for their willingness to embark on something new, or to try to tackle a controversial issue. That, to me, shows real maturity.
You state that no one has asked me to do it. Is that true? Yes. Has anyone asked you or I to contribute to Wikiquote? No. Do we still contribute anyway? Yes. Another way things won't get done is by waiting around for someone to suggest it be done. I understand a great deal the difference between sensitive and casual issues, more than you will ever know. I have taken actions that have caused great controversy, but were needed, followed policy, or stayed on the safe side of the law. I am also not sure you are fully aware of United States Copyright laws (where the WMF and its servers are based) with you not being a current or past resident of the country.
If you have a better way to solve this issue than what I have done, please let me know. Remember, it takes a lot more thought and will-power to do something the best way you think possible than to criticize something another person does. Cbrown1023 talk 00:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I believe this discussion is getting out of hand. Aphaia occasionally uses words that have a more loaded meaning than she may realize. I would ask her to try to avoid the use of the terms "immaturity" and "reckless", which are deductions from actions, and focus more instead on the actions themselves.
At the same time, while I agree that Cbrown1023 is indeed being bold, there is an element of eagerness to solve many outstanding Wikiquote problems in so short a time that it is overwhelming the regular editors. The main reasons things move here at a glacial pace is because:
  • The vast majority of the community has no interest whatsoever in working policy issues, not even when they dislike the results.
  • The tiny group of frequent editors has had its hands full since Kalki was the only active sysop 2-3 years ago. (We lose active sysops almost as fast as we gain new ones, partly due, I'm sure, to burn-out.)
  • Too much work from too few people turns a Wikimedia project into an oligarchy — the very opposite of what a wiki should be — which leads many active editors to avoid trying to be too bold. (The wiki ideal of "Be bold" is countered by the admonition "but don't be reckless", which may be the point Aphaia is trying to make. Like m:Don't be a dick, which I noticed Cbrown1023 had on his/her user page at one time, it's a guideline that may be best rephrased for civil discourse.)
Wikiquote needs experienced, energetic editors like Cbrown1023. But it is necessary for eager editors to recognize the limitations and challenges of a project with a very small set of frequent editors. While we all want to flesh out material here, we don't want to simply impose half-formed ideas (like our draft attempt on WQ:SOURCE, which needs serious work) on the community, just to make it official. Patience, as well as boldness, is a virtue.
Finally, I appreciate the comments from Newyorkbrad, but I have serious concerns about someone whose statement of being "a corporate litigation attorney with 15 years of experience" seems to have been said to suggest he has more than average knowledge of the topic at hand — copyright law — and yet doesn't seem to acknowledge that U.S. law holds that the authors of modern creative works have an automatic copyright on their works. (See Copyright Basics: Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation from the U.S. Copyright Office. That same page also makes clear that no copyright is allowed where the work "contain[s] no original authorship"; e.g., an image simply downloaded and uploaded and/or reprocessed through a non-creative mechanical process.) If we have images without clear statements about their provenance, the most we can do is ask their uploaders for license assertions or delete them. Even if we get such assertions, that doesn't guarantee they're valid — it just shifts the responsibility (somewhat) to the uploader, provided Wikimedia has a clear process to remove materials that it suspects have invalid or no license assertions. If Cbrown1023 has taken images without licenses and re-uploaded them to Commons without getting permission from their copyright holders or providing evidence they are in the public domain or explicitly free-licensed, those images are not there legally (or following Commons requirements) and must be removed. One need not be a lawyer to recognize the logic of this.
Just a comment, Newyorkbrad had informed of the same information you just did about US Copyright law in private correspondance. Him and I have been discussing this heavily over the past few days trying to see what is the best way to fix this situation, but to no avail. Cbrown1023 talk 04:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
It is a very common mistaken belief these days, especially among heavy Internet users, that if something makes its way on to the Internet without being blocked by the rights owner, it is fair game for any use. This is confusing the convenience of copying for the legality, similar to people feeling free to loot businesses during a blackout because they know there's virtually no chance that the overworked authorities will ever catch them. But, extending the analogy, the Wikimedia Foundation is a large, well-funded organization that makes such "looting" possible, and while no particular user may ever get "caught", WMF can certainly be hit with lawsuits for failing to do due diligence in addressing copyright concerns. (Witness the recent troubles YouTube has had because of its users' carelessness.) Anyone wishing to preserve unlicensed material must do so in a legally sound, not just technically convenient, manner. Unless this is done explicitly, the Foundation has the right to summarily delete suspect material. As with all other editing tasks, it does so primarily through the editors who commit themselves to policing licensing issues. But the Foundation can and will come down on us if we aren't careful, and we've already had one Wikiquote (French) shut down for a year because they caused WMF legal grief. We must work to become more sensitive to properly licensing material. I'd like to keep historically important material, too, but since we weren't especially careful in our history, we must face the possibility that preserving some historical material isn't worth the legal problems. (And just to be clear, I'm not accusing Cbrown1023 of intentionally doing something illegal, just of failing to realize the inadequate legal stance s/he is taking by these actions.)
I suspect my soliloquy may not have defused this argument as I'd started out trying to do, but there are some serious issues that must be acknowleged and addressed. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Did anyone care to read the license I placed the images? I just re-read it and found: "This image (or parts of it) is copyrighted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is (or includes) one of the official logos or designs used by the Wikimedia foundation or by one of its projects..."

  1. The "Wikiquote" name is a copyrighted name (more like a registered trademark, but I supsect WMF includes that as well).
  2. Some of them are the logos themselves and some of them include parts of the logo, and therefore, it fits under that license.

If I am wrong, please show me where my line of thiking went wrong. Cbrown1023 talk 04:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, obviously I'm aware of the information you include in your comment to the effect that there is automatic copyright in the United States on material that was published, provided that such publication first occurred after the Copyright Act of 1976 took effect on January 1, 1978 (which obviously would be true with respect to these images or anything else that might have been designed for a wiki project), which abolished the doctrine of common-law copyright and replaced it with a regime of statutory copyright ab initio. My comment was not meant to adopt every word that Cbrown1023, who is not a lawyer, said regarding these issues. In fact, I was actually discussing some of these matters with him yesterday to help him bring a more nuanced analysis to these issues. (His seeking out a potentially more knowledgeable person to discuss an issue with when questioned strikes me as the epitome of responsible, rather than reckless, behavior.) No one here thinks that any image on the Internet is fair game for any use, and in fact the efforts that are being made here suggest that no one was operating on the basis of any such assumption. As a newcomer to this project, I will not offer further views at this point and in particular will not opine on whether some of the earlier images with licensing problems should be abandoned or whether OFFICE guidance should be sought on how best to handle them. Newyorkbrad 22:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Please just recall that I would have liked these images to have been deleted because they had no reason for being here and were orphaned. This is also what you guys wanted, per the VfD discussion I read, you all seemed to want them uploaded to Commons. Cbrown1023 talk 23:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Update: I'm not sure if I told you guys, but I have e-mailed the creator of the three of the images and have gotten no responses. The other three have no contact information nor a Wikiquote e-mail saved. If they don't do anything, I think that is silent agreement. (Please also note that this is common practice in law, see "Google Books" and the online Google Library in the works.) Cbrown1023 talk 23:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You are now an admin...Edit

Congratulations! You are now an administrator at Wikiquote. Your eagerness and skill has been appreciated. ~ Kalki 23:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for performing the change. :) Cbrown1023 talk 23:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations! :) Newyorkbrad 23:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice Going! 5 outta 7 23:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Congrats dude! :) Majorly 23:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I get to hand on the baton of "newbie admin", well done! Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 23:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


Hello, great Cbrown1023! I'm new here and before I just "jump into things" I wanted to ask a few questions. I'm asking you because I was told you are a great leader here at Wikiquote. Here's the Q's dog:

1.) Are there any special rules or traditions I should know of?

2.) Is there a type of hierarchy here I should know of?

3.) Any ideas of where I should start?

4.) Anyone I should stay away from or be aware of? (Trouble makers, notorious vandals etc.?)

Thanks for your help,

5 outta 7 23:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The Welcome message I put on your user page before this post should be of some help. Cbrown1023 talk 23:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I asked you four questions, responses would be appricated.

Stay Blessed,



Why are you being so rude? I didin't do anything to you? And why are you attacking Wikinews? 5 outta 7 00:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

That was an imposter. Cbrown1023 was blocked indefinintly with nocreate. -- 00:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
in regards to wikinews. That was an impersonation account (I belive) and is not really this person. (I just blocked that acount name at wikinews, so if you have any questions about it please leave me a message, or contact me on irc.) I'm curious 5 outta 7, I'm suprised you know about the wikinews thing. it was on the site for less then a minute, and its been about three since the incident. You are not a user there, so how are you aware of it? Bawolff 00:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
5 outta 7, I am not accusing you of anything, but please edit here within the next 23 hours to see if you were blocked. Thank you, Cbrown1023 talk 00:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Cbrown1023, I suggest you create an account on Wikinews to prevent further impersonation. FWN 00:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestion, but I have one already and have had one for a while, but that was a different name, Cbrown1032. Cbrown1023 talk 00:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You might consider "confirming" that account, like Messedrocker does at the bottom of his userpage. Do you want a bureaucrat to move the account? --Thunderhead 00:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I do have a confirmation. :) I have a WikiMartix on Meta and a link to meta. All my accounts have that. :) Cbrown1023 talk 00:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Well the vandal name was Cbrown1032 not Cbrown1023 so the real account is the right name. Its also been there for a while, so I doubt its fake. Bawolff 00:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I apologize for accusing you of being rude, I've been made aware that is was an impersonator of you that defaced my page. 5 outta 7 22:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Troll warningEdit

Jeff, you were right in all of what you said. I would just like to point out a few minute details so you are more "in the loop". 5 outta 7 was referring to a user vandalising his talk page when he stated that I was being rude, but it turned out that it was a user whose username was purposely almost identical to mine (i.e. an imposter). (You can see the bottom of my talk page for more information.) The same thing happened to me at Wikinews, I think the users are the same person. Here, I blocked the user in question indefinitely and enabled an autoblock. In case you are not aware, an autoblock is a, normally 24 hour, block on an IP address that was used by a blocked user or that the blocked user tried to use. My reasoning behind this was to see if the imposter (who caused havoc at Wikinews and was an imposter/troll here) was in fact 5 outta 7. A possible confirmation of this is that 5 outta 7 has not edited since my enabling the autoblock. This should be a simple way to solve this without checkuser. Cbrown1023 talk 03:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I was not meaning any bad faith by this, I just wanted to make sure you informed of this incident in its interity. I also appreciate greatly you sticking up for me and what is right. :) Thanks (and thanks for your support in my RfA). :) Cbrown1023 talk 03:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the details. It's good to have the absence after the autoblock to suggest our suspicions are accurate. You might want to read my detailed description of the last attack we had along these lines, to see why it was reasonable for Wikiquote sysops (yourself now included — congrats!) to deduce bad faith from this user, even without that evidence or a checkuser. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank YouEdit

Thank you for welcoming me to Wikiqoute Cbrown1023, I feel like I'm a valued member here.--BrianGriffin-FG 19:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem. :) Cbrown1023 talk 20:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Why Do You Torture Me So?Edit

You accuse me of being a...troll! How so, may I ask? What did I do deserving of this shameful title? From my edit history, It has been proved that I am not the one who tried to mimick you name, as I edited within 24 hours of his block. So I ask...Why Do You Torture Me So? 5 outta 7 21:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

As you can state that as a reason, it is probable that you just went to a different comptuer or set up a proxy. Cbrown1023 talk 22:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


Well done on your promotion. I must check RfA more often - had I known you were standing, I'd have voted for you!--Poetlister 14:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! :) Cbrown1023 talk 21:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


Hey, Cbrown! I noticed that you are an administrator on both Wikipedia and Wikiquote. Just out of curiousity, what does it take to become an admin on Wikiquote? My interest here isn't nearly as large as it is on WP, but I thought that it would be pretty cool to become an admin here someday. I'm also trying to become one at WP, but I'm not quite sure I'm ready yet. If you ever get the chance, do you mind telling me a bit about the requirements, expectations, etc. required for adminship here (or if it's included in an article, just show me the way and I'll figure it out on my own)? And I hate to ask you this, but do you also mind just glancing at my Wikipedia account and telling me if I'm ready for adminship? I'll understand if you don't want to do this. It's not really be that big of a deal. Well thanks in advance, whatever your answers may be, and I hope to talk to you again soon. Happy editing! // DecaimientoPoético 23:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd be more than happy to, I'll get back to you after I review you. :) Cbrown1023 talk 02:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Your editor review basicallly sums up what I wanted to say. Try to get active in administrative areas so people notice you and allow them to see that you can be trusted with the tools and that you will put them to use. You should also at least read RfAs and occasionally !vote in them to see what the current standards are. Then, try to meet those standards.
The same things apply for Wikiquote, try to spend time in administrative areas. You should read the Adminstrators' noticeboard and Village Pump and also comment in discussions. I would suggest voting in VfDs and doing Recent changes patrol (possibly also welcoming new users). You should try to stay around a while on Wikiquote and get quite a few edits so that users know you and will be able to see that you are a good user and can be trusted. Cbrown1023 talk 02:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to do this for me. I'll read up on those pages and get involved in more administrative areas like you suggest. I hope it wasn't too much trouble for you. Happy editing! // DecaimientoPoético 03:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

"What links here" before deletionEdit

You may not have noticed that when you deleted Elix Skipper per its VfD discussion, it left a prominent red link on Main Page. Please check the "What links here" links before deleting articles, not just because of this normally rare occurrence (although it's the second time someone has done this in less than two weeks), but also because many to-be-deleted articles include links in theme or other articles that should also be removed. Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

That's where the link was! I did check it, and saw that it was linked from the main page and was like "wth?!" I didn't see it anywhere, but I guess I didn't check hard enough. Cbrown1023 talk 04:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Ekans blockEdit

I had two problems and a question about your recent permanent block on Ekans (talk · contributions) and the message you left for the user. First, the message begins with a {{Vandalblock}}, but I saw only a single edit ([1]), a quote added to Russell Peters that may not have been accurate but doesn't appear to be vandalism. I also found nothing in the deletion log that had been edited by this user, let alone something to suggest vandalism.

Second, the idea that this username is a trademark is questionable:

  • It is not obviously an attempt to infringe on a trademark, given that it follows a very common practice of reversing a common word or phrase for a username.
  • Wikiquote:Username#Inappropriate usernames has no policy about trademarked names at this time.
  • Even w:Wikipedia:Username#Trademark disallows names that "undoubtedly refer to the owner of the trademark" (or presumably the trademarked name), which this does not, even for Pokemon fans.
  • The WP policy itself is the current subject of heated debate over overzealous interpretation by non-lawyers.

Basically, we have so few sysops and editors, relative to Wikipedia, that we usually try to err on the side of acceptance, not banning, unless there is clear and persistent vandalism involved, which does not seem to be the case here.

Finally, my question is, are you using a template for your inappropriate-username message? It looks like it's a partially adapted from Wikipedia, and probably needs some more work, especially given that it doesn't refer to existing Wikiquote-specific policies and points to a non-existent request page. We tend to make our messages here more personal and specific to Wikiquote unless and until we have a properly tested template and supporting set of cited pages in place to address any specific issue.

We have few enough editors, mostly novices and many not even familiar with Wikipedia, that we must be sure to assume good faith from everyone who doesn't cause rampant, obvious vandalism. Please consider this when reviewing user names and edits. Thank you for your attention. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

It's your template, Template:UsernameBlock. Cbrown1023 talk 15:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
If you feel it warrants an unblock then unblock. I did not ban the user, just the username. Cbrown1023 talk 15:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


I only have a few minutes right now, on a wi-fi link: what is the name of the bot you would like to use: If I can't give it a bot flag right now, I will be able to in about 3 hrs, when I will have a bit more time. ~ Kalki 01:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

User:BrownBot now has bot status. ~ Kalki 04:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, starting it now. If there are any problems, block first and ask questions later. (Some people take it as a personal insult, I do not mind.) Cbrown1023 talk 10:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Lynx deprecationEdit

Uh, Cbrown1023, might I suggest an announcement at the village pump of your deprecation of Template:lynx and bot-removal from potentially thousands of pages before you get too far? While I concede that it's a logical thing to do, there has been some discussion of alternatives in the past (see MediaWiki talk:Sidebar and Template talk:Lynx), and no conclusions had been reached yet. Even though it may get a resounding yawn from the community, you never know. (I happen to agree with the change and have already removed "lynx" from the Wikiquote:Templates subpages as "deprecated", so I'm at least complicit at this point. ☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Oops! I notice now that you've been calling for this for a bit and I somehow failed to notice your posts. (I must be developing early senility ☺) Still, it affects everyone, so it should be mentioned at VP. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It has been mentioned at VP. Cbrown1023 talk 21:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I will be restarting the bot then. Cbrown1023 talk 21:17, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
No, this hasn't been "mentioned", let alone discussed, at VP. What was said was an innocuous statement that "The sidebar has been updated to included wikquote links." What's a "sidebar"? What specific "wikiquote links" are being discussed? "Lynx" isn't even mentioned!
Wikiquote is not Wikipedia, with thousands of experienced wiki editors involved in architectural discussions. Nearly everyone participating here knows just enough to use the "edit" tab to make changes to articles, and if we're lucky, they follow the formatting they can observe in the articles they're editing. Announcements or discussions with the community must include context appropriate for the general community if they're going to be mean anything. You might look at some of my VP posts responding to non-sysop questions to see how I fill in the contextual gaps that we wiki-savvy editors tend to assume (incorrectly) that everyone understands (like expanding acronyms like "VP" at least once in any conversation and making sure there's always a link to whatever's being discussed, instead of expecting any interested party to already know all the relevant pages and discussions).
I have posted what I believe is a more useful announcement of the situation. It may very well generate nothing but yawns, but it fulfills our responsibility to keep the entire community informed.
I had no real problems with the bot. I only stopped it after reading your acceptance of unprejudicial blocks and noticing that you were still making BrownBot changes after I posted some comments, including on your talk page. (That's one thing I find annoying about separate accounts for bot or other special activity. I can't wait until they get a cross-account message notification system working.) Despite my concern about the lack of community involvement, I am quite happy that you tackled this issue energetically. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The users I had notified responded happily to it saying that it was a great idea. Anyone who had any further questions could have felt free to ask. Thank you for "expanding my wiki-speak". I had not found your message for over 10 hours because I was out all day, hence my asking any sysops to block immediately. Cbrown1023 talk 21:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yo, dawg.Edit

So can I run my bot, Tapernoc Bot? Thanks. Tapernoc 19:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Tapernoc 20:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you - no hard feelings.Edit

From the VfD page, in reply to Tyrenius's suggestion that VfD should be a last resort and implying I should have been emailed: "Yes, I am sorry about that. As you may have seen, I have been busy around Wikiquote with the Sidebar and Lynx... I overlooked that accidentally and did not e-mail him after you said that you had already. Cbrown1023 talk 01:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)"

No hard feelings. Thanks for the compromise. I only wish Wikipedia admin hierarchy were as fair. Take care,--GordonWatts 02:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Button URLsEdit

O possessor of arcane wiki-wisdom, where'd you come up with a toolbar-worthy URL for Image:Button hr halfwidth.png? ☺ Seriously, thanks for updating it in MediaWiki:Common.js, but I'd also like to know how one might deduce in which "" subdirectories one might find one's new buttons. My brain is too feeble at the moment to make the connection. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Click on the image link you gave, below the image, there is a little link that has the image name (in this case, "Button_hr_halfwidth.png‎ (23 × 22 pixel, file size: 1,012 B, MIME type: image/png)"). You click that link and you get the link. Read the italics when your mind isn't so feeble. :) The files aren't actually located at the image descriptor page, that is just how we access them. (It is very similar to the fact that all Wikimedia pages are /wiki/ but the directory is index.php (that's what it says when you edit).) The files are actually located at that URL in Cbrown1023 talk 02:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll get back to my Jell-O and reruns of Sky King now. ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


thank you for welcoming me! --Wpktsfs 21:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


Can I ask that you check the list of films or TV shows (or whatever) when you delete pages, just to be sure that the deleted page is no longer shown as an active page (or is removed entirely from a list if appropriate)? I already demoted a couple of the films and one of the TV shows you recently deleted. Thanks. ~ UDScott 20:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Um, may I ask why? The pages I delete are not pages that I recently deleted are not pages that should never be on Wikiquote. The pages just have no content at that time and for a while (hence my summary). Cbrown1023 talk 23:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I see, there is a section for requested titles on the same page. Cbrown1023 talk 23:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


I'm sorry, but I do doubt I will get blocked. Anyways, have a fun wikibreak.—This unsigned comment is by Joe (talkcontribs) 17:34, 30 March 2007.

Okay, but I find it funny that I am on a public computer and cannot even access your userpage because of your username (for some reason, the computer will not let me due to your username (the pagename)). Cbrown1023 talk 19:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

IP blockEdit

Hey you editor whatever. u sent me a message about last warning or something and I didn't even edit anything. What is up freak.

Well, you can't be blocked if you could edit my talk page. Cbrown1023 talk 23:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


You may wish to check Wikipedia's Administrators' Noticeboard with regard to PatPeter, who I presume is the same username on Wikipedia. There was a particularly concerning incident a few days ago. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 23:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking a 1-year block there classifies him under Wikiquote:Username's "notorious Wikipedian usernames" and he needs to be blocked immediately. Also, for his well-being, wikis obviously cause him a lot of stress and possible suicide, so this is preventative. Cbrown1023 talk 23:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Dennis FakesEdit

Just for your notice, I undeleted Dennis Fakes. I understand each speedied page can be restored without consensus as same as its deletion, and I don't think it acceptable to speedy a page which once survived VfD in a not so much different shape. Relevant discussion may be found at User talk:Jeffq. Cheers, --Aphaia 02:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


Greetings! I uploaded the new version of AWB, and suddenly find myself unable to use it on Wikiquote. Can you fix this? Cheers! BD2412 T 13:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

You have been added to the list. Cbrown1023 talk 20:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Cheers! BD2412 T 23:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


I see you have added a line in the Snakes N' Barrels episode.

Line 1,543, Pickles never says "or some shit"

I watched this episode hundreds of times on youtube and the quote isn't there. So stop adding it, thanks.

I reverted all your edits to that page, because many of them appeared incorrect. It seems that is the only edit (out of 10) that I was wrong about. Cbrown1023 talk 03:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

How are you?Edit

I wish you've enjoyed your trip. --Aphaia 22:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I have, I am still on it, but snuck online to edit a bit! You've caught me! Thank you, though! I hope you have been well, I see that you guys have been rather busy whilst I was away! Cbrown1023 talk 22:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


      • Cbrown1023 is now known as timicha1
      • timicha1 is now known as jwa1es
      • jwa1es is now known as Cbrown1023
      • Cbrown1023 is now known as Crazytales3
      • Crazytales3 is now known as bad
      • bad is now known as Cbrown1023
      • Crazytales2 is now known as Crazytales3
      • Crazytales3 is now known as Crazytales2
      • Cbrown1023 is now known as Mr_Gustafson
      • Mr_Gustafson is now known as Cbrown1023
      • Cbrown1023 is now known as yousmellworse
      • yousmellworse left #wikinews []

Was it you who made these changes? Just checking. FWN 00:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

he-he... unfortunately, yes, we were all joking together.... in #wikimedia, #vandalism-meta, and #wikipedia-en-admins. Thanks for checking! Although the ones mentioned below were not me (but a user I was talking with). Cbrown1023 talk 00:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
*** Crazytales2 is now known as Crazytales3
*** Crazytales3 is now known as Crazytales2
Thanks. We had a vandal in IRC before so I just wanted to double check with you. FWN 00:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikiquote talk:Votes for deletion archive/w/index.php?title=Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/w/index.phpEdit

Please delete. Seems like I taged it right after you deleted it. FWN 01:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, and listed now on WQ:PT.--Aphaia 01:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Those pages are created by bots that are w:open proxies. They should be blocked indef. See: [2] FWN 01:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestions, while my favorite proxychecker says may not be an open proxy, but it may be wrong. By the way I am not sure if we need to block indef those proxies (most of them don't rest for a year, and some of them are just zombie machines). We are rather better to use meta list to block those open proxies. Cbrown1023, could you please consider to run your bot for blocking those listed IP addresses on meta? --Aphaia 02:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll try, remind me tomorrow on IRC. Also, how shall we block them? Anon-only? Account-creation disable? (I am thinking anon-only.) Cbrown1023 talk 02:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I think "anon-only" might make a little sense .... we have seen vandalism accounts accessing through open proxies on other projects. Unless the exceptional cases (for Qatar, or people behind the Great Firewall), I find no good reason to allow registered users to use open proxies. If we let registered users to edit through open proxies, I am afraid it may give a room for sockpuppetry. --Aphaia 09:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


I noticed your message earlier and then forgot about it until now. What project is Skenmy on, so I can send an email with a new password, after moving and blocking the current Skenmy here? ~ Kalki 07:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Replied on user's talk page and matter has been settled. :) Cbrown1023 talk 17:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome botEdit

Might be an idea to get it flagged from an RC point of view, keeps it cleaner (doing a good job tho - if I could get Wikibooks interested I might get some more info about it from you). Cheers --Herby talk thyme 16:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I currently have a request at Wikiquote:Bots... (as I have had for a while... any b'crats watching? :-P) you are welcome to support it if you like. :) Cbrown1023 talk 17:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - still finding pages!! Done --Herby talk thyme 18:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

naughty usersEdit

Check out Special:Contributions/ and the history for George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. --Charitwo 20:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

He's been warned, if he does it again, tell me, and I will block him. Cbrown1023 talk 21:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome. I keep finding things to put here and finally took the plunge. Regards, Fred.e 17:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

no problem. :) Cbrown1023 talk 20:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


thanks for the infoAFUSCO 00:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia ReviewEdit

You said the following about The Wikipedia Review at WQ:VP#Poetlister:

As admins, we have access to information that is sensitive or otherwise not-readily accessible to the public and should not be able to be posted on that site. I believe that Poetlister should be one or the other, not both (a WQ admin or a WR user).

Now you have me worried. I'd just registered my usual username at TWR (with a different password, of course) as my standard practice in avoiding impersonators. Am I now causing an inherent problem being both a WQ admin and a WR user? I'm inferring (weakly, as I clearly don't know much about this situation) that Poetlister is being accused of sharing privileged information on TWR. That would obviously be extremely inappropriate if done intentionally (or accidentally but repeatedly, although even one instance should clearly be avoided).

I guess the problem I have with this whole matter is it appears to be based on an investigation done out of the public eye, with not a shred of linked evidence provided thus far. Even if done by trusted users, some summary, with as much information as can reasonably be made public, should be presented somewhere to allow editors across the relevant projects to understand the decision. I might grudgingly even go along with information privately emailed to sysops. But the idea of de-sysopping or banning someone without documented evidence, solely on the word of trusted (but fallible) human beings, is far too caballistic for my tastes. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I really trust you, but the fact of the matter is, you shouldn't have just given me your username here (it should be different, if you are going to comment). :) It's one thing to have an account there just to have one and to comment innocently (or refute negative comments about your "friends") and it is a completely different thing to be an admin there. That shows a great level of depth in the community and is not the kind of community we want our admins to be in. This is a very large Wikimedia problem, but I don't think they have done anything very bad recently. The fact of the matter is, this is just icing on the cake. Please also m:Requests for CheckUser information#en.wq. Cbrown1023 talk 01:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Ahhh. I just got an email from Aphaia that explains something that I was not aware of. It says that TWR is an anti-Wikipedia site. I sure wish I'd seen that mentioned somewhere before I joined — I wouldn't have bothered. Although I'm not especially worried about my email address, as I routinely use different email addresses for different situations, I suppose those admins might have access to my IP address. Actually, that's not exactly a secret I care much about, either. I certainly hadn't had any intention of adding any personal information to that site, even before I realized its purpose. I even log in in in "invisible" mode, so I don't show up as an active user. Is there some other privacy problem I should be aware of? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:56, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
You probably also do not know this because you do not view meta often, are not on IRC, and do not have access to the CU logs... but there's been CU confirmation here that Poetlister here is the same there (and possibly other things... I'm not sure, ask Dmcdevit). Cbrown1023 talk 01:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been digging for details on this situation. I found the w:Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Newport case associating w:User:Brownlee with w:User:Poetlister utterly unconvincing. Heck, it would implicate me as a sockpuppet of hundreds of users in hundreds of articles. (Maybe I'm unusual in that I actually read old discussions before I start hacking on an article I've just come across. ) I'm still looking into the CheckUser angle. I appreciate the link to the new CU request. I'd seen references to another CheckUser request, but I was troubled by the vague statements and lack of specific account names cited. I'll keep reading. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
There is no request, you have to realize that most CheckUser are not done with a written request on the wiki. It is really rather complicated. Any information can be found by e-mailing or contacting dmcdevit. Just make sure you use a descriptive subject for your e-mail because they get held for approval. Cbrown1023 talk 20:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


Thanks. :) Cbrown1023 talk 16:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


Hey, WelcomeBot stuffs up adding to the log when there are usernames that contain a space, as the format of external links means the last half of their name and the rest of the URL is taken as part of the link title. You can fix this by replacing spaces with %20's in their name before making it into URL form. Thanks! 23:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC) (User:TheFeaorw on enwiki)

Thanks. I've fixed it by adding the urlencode magic word to the log template (Template:WLE). Cbrown1023 talk 16:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


My first time posting Wikiquotes, at ~Simone Bittencourt de Oliveira. Can you help me? Ludovicapipa 18:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello! What is it that you need help with? For the article you are currently working on, it may be best to cite where those people said those things and include lines that were actually said or sang by Simone. Cbrown1023 talk 00:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


:-) --Herby talk thyme 16:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
:) I've replied. Cbrown1023 talk 19:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


Thank you for welcoming. I'm adding some interwiki links for Croatia and I figured that I don't want to do that anonymously. :) --Modra 15:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem! Nice to see a Croatian, we don't get many of them! I like diversity. :) Cbrown1023 talk 19:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much! :)Edit

Thank you so much for the beautiful, kind welcome, my dear Cbrown! :) It means the world to me to be welcomed by a wonderful person and a great editor I look up to. It's beautiful to be part of Wikiquote, and to share this space with friends like you. And do check your email - I'll continue this there :) Love, Phaedriel - 19:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


Thank you for welcoming me! It is so important to be welcomed. -JohnManuel 10:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all. :) Cbrown1023 talk 16:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Sir!Edit

Thanks very much for the welcome, mate. Very kind of you. I think I'll like it here..... The Great Number 8 20:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem! I'm always glad to see us get new contributors! :) Cbrown1023 talk 00:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome, that was fast. Modernist 00:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, no problem. You just happened to created an account at the right time. :) Cbrown1023 talk 03:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank You!Edit

Thanks for the welcome-bot. It made me feel like someone actually cared about me joining.--Freiberg 15:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem! Glad you are here! :-) Cbrown1023 talk 15:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I second that! The links are helpful too. Anthrcer 16:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:-) Cbrown1023 talk 01:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back WB (and its botmaster)Edit

Now I realize more and more how helpful it is :) --Aphaia 05:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, thanks! :-) I still need to get it fixed on the toolserver though (the ts was being difficult, so I just ran it from my own computer, now I need to work on getting that part fixed!). Cbrown1023 talk 23:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

Thank you for your bot's welcoming. I'm not a new user in Wiki, but a new user in English Wikiquote. I know that you use your bot to welcome the new users here, but if I'm a real new user, I'll not feeling good after your bot welcomed me. I'll think that, to welcome the new users is a job your bot must do here, and I'll think that my account creating is not that important to be welcomed by a real Wikiquote user. You should think more about that, and I would like to be your friend. -- King of King Chaplin Discuss with me please! 09:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

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