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Welcome, newcomers and baffled oldtimers! This is the place if you (a) have a question about Wikiquote and how it works or (b) a suggestion for improving Wikiquote. Just click the link above "create a new topic", and then you can place your submission at the bottom of the list, and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about who said what, go to the reference desk instead.)
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Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Wikiquote, (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the village pump archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.
Significant VFD discussionsEdit
At present there are 4 VFD discussions that between them have elements of inclusivity, censorship, harm, notability, quality and verification, bias, and fansite hijacking. Some relevant policies/guidelines/background include Wikiquote:Wikiquote, Wikiquote:What Wikiquote is not, Wikiquote:Quotability and WQ:QLP. Decisions may impact how other articles with similar characteristics are either kept, edited or deleted. I therefore invite the community to consider participating in the following VfDs: DeirgeDel tac 02:34, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Last words in The Sopranos media
- Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/M. A. Khan
- Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Last words in Soul Eater
- Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Aart Juriaanse
DeirgeDel tac 02:34, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Making an addition to the list thats become a tricky handling. I've just recused and one admin has recused.
Archiving too agressive.Edit
I personally feel the archiving on this page great but perhaps just a little too aggressive. I think I'd prefer to see old(35d) and minthreadsleft = 4. But thats just a personal viewpoint. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel tac 02:01, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Ferien @Saroj Uprety @Koavf Pinging active sysops. I accept this proposal. Lemonaka (talk) 02:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- Sounds fine to me: this is a pretty small project compared to Wikipedia or Wiktionary, so topics can be open for a while longer. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah I would agree (and I'm going to say that even though you've already done it). It was way too quick to archive. On simplewiki (which I believe is comparable to this project in terms of size) minthreadsleft is set to 5. I think 4-5 is a good minimum level. --Ferien (talk) 18:23, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- @DeirgeDel Done. Lemonaka (talk) 12:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Worldcat identities and Authority control.Edit
In a nutshell Worldcat has switched from using identities to entities and has left the {{worldcat subject}}, {{worldcat id}} and {{worldcat}} templates non-functional. Only {{worldcat id}} and I/(we?) are possibly looking at an update to {{worldcat}} to fix it. -- DeirgeDel tac 23:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Authority controlEdit
I can't find but I think there was talk of using an updated version of {{Authority control}} so identities could be picked up from wikidata than as hard coded parameters, albeit some may not like that. In all events if {{Authority control}} was upgraded to cope with Worldcat entities that might make any updates to the Worldcat templates totally unnecessary. {{Authority control}} and associated module(s) are beyond the scope what enWikiquote could sustainably managed and e.g. the English Wikipedia version would need to be copied and regularly refreshed. -- DeirgeDel tac 23:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed to import w:en:Template:Authority control and related modules/templates until such time as universal templates are introduced. This is a perfect use case for Wikidata and beyond our scope and ability to maintain. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:12, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Koavf:: From your statement it looks like {{Authority control}} is the way to go and basically to remove the Worldcat* templates off the see completely. Per w:en:Template:Authority control documentation it seems like the current version already supports d:p:P10832 so that ought to be good for us. I looked at the discussion at Template talk:Authority control#WorldCat and while technically they seem on top of the template change there seems less of a roadmap of plans to get Wikidata items with P7859 replaced with P10832 items - but I may be missing something. If I read it correctly they are interested in the hundreds of thousands P7859 cases they have. With a Wikiquote hat on I am interested in the 90+ cases where {{Worldcat id}} is in use, and I suspect in most(all?) cases the Worldcat id is hardcoded as a template parameter. I have a python program, "lollipop2", that could be the basis of a program to extract those World id if values if necessary. But there may be better and quicker methods of doing that and it may not be necessary anyway as I do not have a Worldcat id to Worldcat entity map function identified to me. The sub goal is to get P10832 populated for though 90+ cases, and the other sub goal is to get {{authority control}} on those articles. The order that is done doesn't really matter but it might be perhaps better from some AWB viewpoints to leave {{Worldcat id}} in place until last in the process but I'd suggest leaving that to the person doing the implementation. There is a list of Wikiquote affected articles currently at Template talk:Worldcat#Articles affected by Template:Worldcat id. One interesting use case I'm looking at is the current versions of H. G. Wells here on enWikiquote and also on wikidata. Might be better praying to Mother Teresa though rather than CIR and BATTLEGROUNDing war of the worlds. Obviously because on by indef block on enWP I cant communicate there and discussions on :Simple, :Commons, & UTRS means I feel thats likely to continue for the rest of my life. Key point: Best if someone get Authority control imported to get that box ticked. -- DeirgeDel tac 08:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm pretty reluctant to import templates because they always have so many dependencies, but it seems like the only option here. I'll leave this open for a bit to see if anyone else has a magic solution. If I don't get to it in the next two weeks and I forget, please do ping me. (And as an aside, I know nothing about any drama with you on en.wp, so it in no way prejudices my perspective on your edits here. I hope whatever that is is resolved soon or is at least in a good state now.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Koavf:: From your statement it looks like {{Authority control}} is the way to go and basically to remove the Worldcat* templates off the see completely. Per w:en:Template:Authority control documentation it seems like the current version already supports d:p:P10832 so that ought to be good for us. I looked at the discussion at Template talk:Authority control#WorldCat and while technically they seem on top of the template change there seems less of a roadmap of plans to get Wikidata items with P7859 replaced with P10832 items - but I may be missing something. If I read it correctly they are interested in the hundreds of thousands P7859 cases they have. With a Wikiquote hat on I am interested in the 90+ cases where {{Worldcat id}} is in use, and I suspect in most(all?) cases the Worldcat id is hardcoded as a template parameter. I have a python program, "lollipop2", that could be the basis of a program to extract those World id if values if necessary. But there may be better and quicker methods of doing that and it may not be necessary anyway as I do not have a Worldcat id to Worldcat entity map function identified to me. The sub goal is to get P10832 populated for though 90+ cases, and the other sub goal is to get {{authority control}} on those articles. The order that is done doesn't really matter but it might be perhaps better from some AWB viewpoints to leave {{Worldcat id}} in place until last in the process but I'd suggest leaving that to the person doing the implementation. There is a list of Wikiquote affected articles currently at Template talk:Worldcat#Articles affected by Template:Worldcat id. One interesting use case I'm looking at is the current versions of H. G. Wells here on enWikiquote and also on wikidata. Might be better praying to Mother Teresa though rather than CIR and BATTLEGROUNDing war of the worlds. Obviously because on by indef block on enWP I cant communicate there and discussions on :Simple, :Commons, & UTRS means I feel thats likely to continue for the rest of my life. Key point: Best if someone get Authority control imported to get that box ticked. -- DeirgeDel tac 08:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
P10832 population taskEdit
I'm kicking off a Wikidata P10832 population tasks for the Wikidata items associated with the 90 or articles using {{Worldcat id}}. See also d:Property talk:P10832#Method of determining P10832 value from P7859 value.. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel tac 11:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
My target on this is a csv file or spreadsheet or whatever suitable for quickstatement input that updates P10832 for our 90+ items of consideration ideally with a reference also. The fallback is plain old Wikidata interactive input. There's a thingy tool using google sheets to quickstatments that can could alternatively help and there's a youtube for that somewhere might help. -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
I am praying the theologian Saint Mother Teresa is a good non-QLP use case example: -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Mother Teresa : {{Worldcat id}} has a hardcode parameter one of lccn-n79-144708 -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- d:Q30547 - This has a P7859 value of lccn-n79144708 -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- w:en:Mother Teresa -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Just noticed that the link to Worldcat in authority control on enWP [1] is redirected by Worldcat to [2] (The Worldcat Entity). It is likely the trailing slash on the former url is significant. (It may be this redirect does not work for all entities). This "discovery" by me that is probably known by all in the know may modify my approach here. Note also {{Worldcat id}} does not use a trailing slash and I may try adding one in a controlled manner which may get it working again, at least for some cases. -- DeirgeDel tac 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Silly me! The core issue here is not a trailing slash it is that Wikiquote's Mother Teresa
iswas using a hardcode value of lccn-n79-144708 rather than lccn-n79144708 as the URL presented to worldcat.org. Having made this change on Mother Teresa's enWQ page {{Worldcat id}} is now using lccn-n79144708 as the id and generating this target URL which is being usefully redirected by the target to a page related to Mother Teresa's entity id E39PBJk8XCQpPMdrBTykXvRkDq. I will need to check some other stuff before commenting further. -- DeirgeDel tac 14:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Silly me! The core issue here is not a trailing slash it is that Wikiquote's Mother Teresa
- @Mike Peel, Pigsonthewing:: Mike, Andy: I think I am seeing the potential for a tool for mapping P7859 (Worldcat ID) to P10832 (Worldcat entity) values; at least in some cases. I wouldn't expect to be the first to notice this and wonder if you are aware of a project or tool to do this in Wikidata. Thanks. -- (formerly Djm-leighpark) DeirgeDel tac 11:46, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
P10832 population task plan FEdit
Obviously going through from Plan A to Plan Z (which is give up) and also plan M (simply enter P10832's manually, there's only 90). I'm currently at plan F which I believe to be feasible. I'm well aware an alt. plan may come from the blindslide which completely obsoletes plan F. I've a (non P.D.) program, I call it lollipop2, which can quickstatements to do sitelinks for (some) unnconnected pages at scale. I usually do manual sitelinking but lollipop2 can be useful when the number of Unconnected pages in mainspace get over about a dozen as it did last week. Anyway lollipop 2 has a good deal of working code that I believe is adaptable and extendable to help; so I've forked a program called xpop2 which I've started to adapted. Crucially xpop2 (currently) lacks ability to get any existing value of P10832 (or any property) from the wikidata item butI have confidence that's an easy extension . The key point is it would be a black box with a list of (the 90 Wikiquote) articles as input and would produce a CSV with the following fields to for filter for QS input: -- DeirgeDel tac 11:52, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
| Field | Mandatory | Source | Coding cost | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wikiquote article name | yes | Flat file input list | None | — |
| Wikidata item id | yes | Sitelink from Wikiquote article | Minimal | — |
| Existing P10832 value | yes | Wikidata item property | Some | Essentially to avoid update of existing value |
| P7859 value from wikidata | no | Wikidata item property | Minimal | Useful. Reuse of code for getting P10832 |
| P7859 value from Worldcat Template | no | Worldcat param on WQ article. | Low | Interesting and possibly useful if not on Wikidata. |
| P10832 value from Worldcat api | no | Wikidata item property | Some-to-large | Does not always yield required result. |
| P10832 field for manual input | yes(ish) | Null field | Trivial | Placeholder for manual entry later |
- Some early results from a really dodgy and klugey xpop2 are at User:DeirgeDel/xpop2. Unfortunately no progress (certainly as yet) with the really useful P10832 value from Worldcat api. -- DeirgeDel tac 00:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Actually now good news as seem able to generate P10832 for most of the Wikiquote use cases! -- DeirgeDel tac 03:49, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- This have come up and I want this off my to-do list so have boldly completed populating P10832 by xpop2 (+ about 6 manual) for 87 articles/wikidata items and leaving the book triology. Strictly speaking at some point need to remove the {{Worldcat id}} templates and add an {{Authority control}} template whan or about when that arrives (an AWB job).
Done (details are here) -- DeirgeDel tac 22:53, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- This have come up and I want this off my to-do list so have boldly completed populating P10832 by xpop2 (+ about 6 manual) for 87 articles/wikidata items and leaving the book triology. Strictly speaking at some point need to remove the {{Worldcat id}} templates and add an {{Authority control}} template whan or about when that arrives (an AWB job).
Selection of the U4C Building CommitteeEdit
The next stage in the Universal Code of Conduct process is establishing a Building Committee to create the charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C). The Building Committee has been selected. Read about the members and the work ahead on Meta-wiki.
-- UCoC Project Team, 04:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Wikiquote opportunity in May and June: graduation speeches by notable peopleEdit
I found a bunch of colorful Michelle Yeoh quotes in the current Harvard Magazine. Lots of university magazines publish quotes from graduation speakers around this time of year. There's a list here. HouseOfChange (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)