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Talk:Purusha

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Much of this is unquotable, some of what is quotable is unsourced, and everything requires copy editing Ficaia (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

CONTENT : A - F , G - L , M - R , S - Z , See also , External links
Quotes are arranged alphabetically by author

A - F

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  • The thought of the Gita is not pure Monism although it sees in one unchanging, pure, eternal Self, the foundation of all cosmic existence , nor Mayavada, although it speaks of the Maya of the three modes of Prakriti omnipresent in the created world; nor is it Qualified Monism although it places in the One his eternal supreme Prakriti manifested in the form of Jiva and lays most stress on dwelling in cold and heat, in God rather than in dissolution as the supreme state of spiritual consciousness; nor is it Sankhya, although it explains the created world by the double principle of Purusha and Prakriti.
  • ‘Purusha’ in Sanskrit means “person,” “self,” “spirit,” or “consciousness”) in Indian philosophy, and particularly in the dualistic system (darshan) of Samkhya, the eternal, authentic self.
  • In Samkhya and also in Yoga, Purusha is opposed to prakriti, the basic matter constituting the phenomenal universe, as the two ontological realities. All animate and inanimate objects and all psychomental experiences are emanations of prakriti. It is confusion of purusha with prakriti that keeps the self in bondage; disassociation of purusha from prakriti is its liberation.
  • Note that we need not agree with the Śāstrakāra-s that the varnāśramadharma is truly “Vedic”, for we do not find it in the first nine books of the Rg-Veda. Even in the tenth book, the last and youngest one, we find it mentioned only once, and there only in the vaguest use, viz. the Purusa Sūkta’s recognition of the existence of four functions in society, without any details of how their personnel is recruited nor of how they should conduct themselves vis-à-vis one another, the very stuff that is the main focus of the Śāstra-s. Like medieval and contemporary Hindus, the Śāstra composers may have considered as ”Vedic” everything they held sacred, regardless of whether a particular norm or custom is indeed traceable to the Veda-s.

G - L

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Know that Prakriti [nature] and Purusha [soul] are both without beginning. Know that all the modifications and gunas [qualities of nature] are born of Prakriti. Prakriti is described as the cause in the creation of effects from causes. - Gita.
 
God is described as having two aspects. Under one aspect we should know Him as Prakriti and under the other as Purusa. Prakriti is the cause of creation of karya, anything done under compulsion of desires, and karan, the desires. Purusa is the cause of experience of happiness and misery. -Mahatma Gandhi.
  • Know that Prakriti [nature] and Purusha [soul] are both without beginning. Know that all the modifications and gunas [qualities of nature] are born of Prakriti. Prakriti is described as the cause in the creation of effects from causes.
  • God is described as having two aspects. Under one aspect we should know Him as Prakriti and under the other as Purusa. Prakriti is the cause of creation of karya, anything done under compulsion of desires, and karan, the desires. Purusa is the cause of experience of happiness and misery.
  • For the Purusha, residing in Prakriti, experiences the gunas born of Prakriti. Attachment to these gunas is the cause of his birth in good or evil wombs.
    • Gita in: "The Bhagavad Gita According to Gandhi", p. 159
  • The Purusha dwelling in this body is para, that is “beyond” Prakriti, but He witnesses and gives consent. He sustains everything, and is also the Enjoyer. He is moreover, the God of gods and is described as Paramatman.
  • On every side enveloping the earth, he overpassed (it) by a space of ten fingers. Purusha himself is this whole (universe), whatever is and whatever shall be . . . . When the gods performed a sacrifice with Purusha as the oblation, the spring was its butter, the summer its fuel, and the autumn its (accompanying) offering. This victim, Purusha, born in the beginning, they immolated on the sacrificial grass. With him the gods, the Sadhyas, and the Rishis sacrificed. From that universal sacrifice were provided curds]] and butter. It formed those aerial (creatures) and animals both wild and tame. From that universal sacrifice sprang the Ric and Saman verses, the metres and Yajush. From it sprang horses, and all animals with two rows of teeth; kine sprang from it; from it goats and sheep. When (the gods) divided Purusha, into how many parts did they cut him up? What was his mouth? What arms (had he)? What (two objects) are said (to have been) his thighs and feet? The Brahman was his mouth; the Rajanya was made his arms; the being (called) the Vaisya, he was his thighs; the Sudra sprang from his feet. The moon sprang from his soul (Mahas), the sun from his eye, Indra and Agni from his mouth, and Vayu from his breath. From his navel arose the air, from his head the Sky, from his feet the earth, from his ear the (four) quarters; in this manner (the gods) formed the world. When the gods, performing sacrifice, bound Purusha as a victim, there were seven sticks (stuck up) for it (around the fire), and thrice seven pieces of fuel were made.

M - R

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S - Z

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  • In Samkhya, since atman (Purusa) is pure consciousness, which cannot be defined further, and Prakrti is responsible for the creation of the empirical world, Purusa is regarded as essentially inactive. But, while in Advaita, the multitude of souls (of course, the karmic chain of transmigration might hold together one and the same soul but they are supposed to be innumerable chains representing different souls) is only valid on the empirical, lower stage of reality.
  • The ninetieth hymn of the tenth Mandala of the Rigveda in which Purusha, the primeval male, is described as 'cut to pieces and offered as a sacrifice by the Gods’ shows that the idea of offering a man, Purusha was familiar to the ancient Aryans.
  • The Supreme Being hath a thousand eyes, a thousand feet : pervading the Universe on all sides, He lay beyond it to the extent of ten inches. The whole Universe of existing things animate as well as inanimate is regarded as the body of Purusha — the Supreme Being.
    • Purusha Sukta in: G. A. Natesan "The Purusha Sukta", p. 10
  • In the first half of the rik [Seasons] Purusha is regarded as the sacrificial offering in general and in the second half the several parts of the offering are specified. The seasons are thus regarded as parts of Purusha. The rik thus implies that the Lord is eternally embodied and all that is, lives and moves, and has its being in Him.
    • Purusha Sukta in: G. A. Natesan "The Purusha Sukta", p. 35
  • They bound the Purusha or the Lord (to the sacrificial post), as the victim to be offered; evidently because there was nothing else to be offered up as sacrifice. From Him sacrificed, was to proceed all the universe of existing things and to Him was the sacrificial offered.
    • Purusha Sukta in: G. A. Natesan "The Purusha Sukta", p. 40
  • They immolated on the sacrificial fire that sacrificial offering, Purusha, who was born before all other things; with this offering, the Gods, the Sadhyas and the Rishis performed the sacrifice.
    • Purusha Sukta in: G. A. Natesan "The Purusha Sukta", p. 42
  • ...this all-wise, Purusha, who after bringing into existence such as men, the gods and the like and giving them names goes on (sustaining the universe) calling every creature by its name, who is resplendent like the sun, and who lies beyond the ocean of ignorance.
    • Purusha Sukta in: G. A. Natesan "The Purusha Sukta", p. 75
  • ...if we ask the Sankhya the question, "Who created nature?" — the Sankhya says that the Purusha and the Prakriti are uncreate and omnipresent, and that of this Purusha there is an infinite number. We shall have to controvert these propositions, and find a better solution, and by so doing we shall come to Advaitism.
  • Vivekananda in: "A Study of the Sankhya Philosophy"

Purusha Suktam - in sanskrit with meaning - from Rig Veda 10.90- from Rig Veda (10.90)

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Purusha Sukta in: Purusha Suktam - in sanskrit with meaning - from Rig Veda 10.90- from Rig Veda (10.90), greenmesg.org

 
The Purusha (The Universal Being) has Thousand Heads, Thousand Eyes and Thousand Feet (Thousand signifies innumerable which points to the omnipresence of the Universal Being),
1.2: He envelops the World from all sides (i.e. He pervades each part of the Creation), and extends beyond in the Ten Directions (represented by Ten Fingers)
  • In Devanagari: सहस्रशीर्षा पुरुषः सहस्राक्षः सहस्रपात् ।
    स भूमिं विश्वतो वृत्वात्यतिष्ठद्दशाङुलम् ॥१॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Sahasra-Shiirssaa Purussah Sahasra-Akssah Sahasra-Paat |
    Sa Bhuumim Vishvato Vrtva-Atya[i]-Tisstthad-Dasha-Angulam ||1|    |
  • English Translation: 1.1: The Purusha (The Universal Being) has Thousand Heads, Thousand Eyes and Thousand Feet (Thousand signifies innumerable which points to the omnipresence of the Universal Being),
    1.2: He envelops the World from all sides (i.e. He pervades each part of the Creation), and extends beyond in the Ten Directions (represented by Ten Fingers)
  • In Devanagari:पुरुष एवेदं सर्वं यद्भूतं यच्च भव्यम् ।
    उतामृतत्वस्येशानो यदन्नेनातिरोहति ॥२॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Purussa Evedam Sarvam Yad-Bhuutam Yacca Bhavyam |
    Uta-Amrtatvasye[a-I]shaano Yad-Annena-Ati-Rohati ||2||
  • English Translation: 2.1: The Purusha is indeed All this (Creation) in essence; That which existed in the Past, and that which will exist in the Future,
    2.2: Everything (i.e the whole Creation) is woven by the Immortal essence of the Great Lord (Purusha); by becoming Food of which (i.e. by getting consumed in Whose Immortal essence through surrender) one transcends the gross world (and becomes Immortal).
  • In Devanagari:एतावानस्य महिमातो ज्यायाँश्च पूरुषः ।
    पादोऽस्य विश्वा भूतानि त्रिपादस्यामृतं दिवि ॥३॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Etaavaanasya Mahima-Ato Jyaayaash-Ca Puurussah |
    Paado-Asya Vishvaa Bhuutaani Tri-Paad-Asya-Amrtam Divi ||3||
  • English Translation:3.1: The Purusha is Greater than all the Greatness (which can be expressed by words),
    3.2: His One Foot has become all these (visible) Worlds, and His Three Feet rests in the Immortal World of the Transcendence.
  • In Devanagari:त्रिपादूर्ध्व उदैत्पूरुषः पादोऽस्येहाभवत्पुनः ।
    ततो विष्वङ् व्यक्रामत्साशनानशने अभि ॥४॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tri-Paad-Uurdhva Udait-Puurussah Paado-Asye[a-I]ha-Abhavat-Punah |
    Tato Vissvang Vya[i-A]kraamat-Saashana-Anashane Abhi ||4||
  • English Translation:4.1: The Three Feet of the Purusha is raised high Above (in Transcendental Realm), and His One Foot becomes the Creation again and again.
    4.2: There, in the Creation, He pervades all the Living (who eats ) and the Non-Living ( who does not eat) beings.
 
From Him (i.e. the Purusha) was born the Virat; (the Virat came into being) from the presence of the Shining Purusha (Who remained as the background or substratum of Virat);
5.2: He (i.e. the Virat) created the Earth, by manifesting Her from His own being as substratum.
  • In Devanagari:तस्माद्विराळजायत विराजो अधि पूरुषः ।
    स जातो अत्यरिच्यत पश्चाद्भूमिमथो पुरः ॥५॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tasmaad-Viraadda-Jaayata Viraajo Adhi Puurussah |
    Sa Jaato Atya[i-A]ricyata Pashcaad-Bhuumim-Atho Purah ||5||
  • English Translation:5.1: From Him (i.e. the Purusha) was born the Virat; (the Virat came into being) from the presence of the Shining Purusha (Who remained as the background or substratum of Virat);
    5.2: He (i.e. the Virat) created the Earth, by manifesting Her from His own being as substratum.
  • In Devanagari:यत्पुरुषेण हविषा देवा यज्ञमतन्वत ।
    वसन्तो अस्यासीदाज्यं ग्रीष्म इध्मः शरद्धविः ॥६॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Yat-Purussenna Havissaa Devaa Yajnyam-Atanvata |
    Vasanto Asya-Asiida-Ajyam Griissma Idhmah Sharad-[d]Havih ||6||
  • English Translation:6.1: With the Purusha as the (Sacrificial) Fire, the Deva (the Shining One, referring to Virat) continued the Yagya (Sacrifice of creation),
    6.2: Spring was (created as) the clarified Butter (of that Yagya), Summer was (created as) the Fuel (of that Yagya), and Autumn was (created as) the Havis (Sacrificial offering of that Yagya).
  • In Devanagari:तं यज्ञं बर्हिषि प्रौक्षन्पुरुषं जातमग्रतः ।
    तेन देवा अयजन्त साध्या ऋषयश्च ये ॥७॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tam Yajnyam Barhissi Pra-Ukssan-Purussam Jaatam-Agratah |
    Tena Devaa Ayajanta Saadhyaa Rssayash-Ca Ye ||7||
  • English Translation:7.1: The First Divine Men were created as the Holy Water sprinkled with the Kusa Grass in that Yagya (Sacrifice of Creation).
    7.2: The First Divine Men were the Sadhya Devas and the Rishis, Who were created by Him, the Deva (the Shining One, referring to Virat), Who performed the Yagya. (These Rishis were not human but divine Rishis like Saptarshis created directly by Virat).
  • In Devanagari:तस्माद्यज्ञात्सर्वहुतः सम्भृतं पृषदाज्यम् ।
    पशून्ताँश्चक्रे वायव्यानारण्यान् ग्राम्याश्च ये ॥८॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tasmaad-Yajnyaat-Sarvahutah Sambhrtam Prssadaajyam |
    Pashuun-Taashcakre Vaayavyaan-Aarannyaan Graamyaash-Ca Ye ||8||
  • English Translation:8.1: From the Complete Offering of His (i.e. Virat's) Yagya (Sacrifice of Creation) was obtained Ghee mixed with coagulated Milk, ...
    8.2: … which (i.e. the Ghee and Milk) are (the created) Animals, both of Air (Birds) and of Forests (Wild Animals) and Villages (Domestic Animals).
 
From the Complete Offering of His (i.e. Virat's) Yagya (Sacrifice of Creation) was born the Rigveda and Sama Veda,
9.2: The Chandas (Vedic Meters) were born from Him, and the Yajurveda was born from Him.
  • In Devanagari:'तस्माद्यज्ञात्सर्वहुत ऋचः सामानि जज्ञिरे ।
    छन्दांसि जज्ञिरे तस्माद्यजुस्तस्मादजायत ॥९॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tasmaad-Yajnyaat-Sarvahuta Rcah Saamaani Jajnyire |
    Chandaamsi Jajnyire Tasmaad-Yajus-Tasmaad-Ajaayata ||9||
  • English Translation:9.1: From the Complete Offering of His (i.e. Virat's) Yagya (Sacrifice of Creation) was born the Rigveda and Sama Veda,
    9.2: The Chandas (Vedic Meters) were born from Him, and the Yajurveda was born from Him.
  • In Devanagari:तस्मादश्वा अजायन्त ये के चोभयादतः ।
    गावोः ह जज्ञिरे तस्मात् तस्माज्जाता अजावयः ॥१०॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Tasmaad-Ashvaa Ajaayanta Ye Ke Co[a-U]bhayaadatah |
    Gaavoh Ha Jajnyire Tasmaat Tasmaaj-Jaataa Ajaa-Vayah ||10||
  • English Translation:10.1: From Him (i.e. Virat) was born the Horses, and all those animals who has [[teeth in both [[jaws,
    10.2: From Him (i.e. Virat) was born the Cows, and from Him was born all types of Goats.
  • In Devanagari:यत्पुरुषं व्यदधुः कतिधा व्यकल्पयन् ।
    मुखं किमस्य कौ बाहू का ऊरू पादा उच्येते ॥११॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Yat-Purussam Vya[i-A]dadhuh Katidhaa Vya[i-A]kalpayan |
    Mukham Kimasya Kau Baahuu Kaa Uuruu Paadaa Ucyete ||11||
  • English Translation: 11.1: What did the Purusha (i.e. Virat) hold within Him? How many parts were assigned in His Huge Form?
    11.2: What was His [[[w:Mouth|Mouth]]? What was His Arms? What was His Thighs? And what was His Feet?
  • In Devanagari:ब्राह्मणोऽस्य मुखमासीद् बाहू राजन्यः कृतः ।
    ऊरू तदस्य यद्वैश्यः पद्भ्यां शूद्रो अजायत ॥१२॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Braahmanno-Asya Mukham-Aasiid Baahuu Raajanyah Krtah |
    Uuruu Tad-Asya Yad-Vaishyah Padbhyaam Shuudro Ajaayata ||12||
  • English Translation:12.1: The Brahmanas were His [[[w:Mouth|Mouth]], the Kshatriyas became His Arms,
    12.2: The Vaishyas were His Thighs, and from His pair of Feet were born the Shudras.
  • In Devanagari:चन्द्रमा मनसो जातश्चक्षोः सूर्यो अजायत ।
    मुखादिन्द्रश्चाग्निश्च प्राणाद्वायुरजायत ॥१३॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Candramaa Manaso Jaatash-Cakssoh Suuryo Ajaayata |
    Mukhaad-Indrash-Ca-Agnish-Ca Praannaad-Vaayur-Ajaayata ||13||
  • English Translation:13.1: The Moon was born from His Mind and the Sun was born from His Eyes,
    13.2: Indra and Agni (Fire) were born from His Mouth, and Vayu (Wind) was born from His Breath.
 
His Navel became the Antariksha (the intermediate Space between Heaven and Earth), His Head sustained the Heaven,
14.2: From His Feet the Earth (was sustained), and from His Ears the Directions (were sustained); in this manner all the Worlds were regulated by Him.
  • In Devanagari:नाभ्या आसीदन्तरिक्षं शीर्ष्णो द्यौः समवर्तत ।
    पद्भ्यां भूमिर्दिशः श्रोत्रात्तथा लोकाँ अकल्पयन् ॥१४॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Naabhyaa Aasiid-Antarikssam Shiirssnno Dyauh Samavartata |
    Padbhyaam Bhuumir-Dishah Shrotraat-Tathaa Lokaa Akalpayan ||14||
  • English Translation:14.1: His Navel became the Antariksha (the intermediate Space between Heaven and Earth), His Head sustained the Heaven,
    14.2: From His Feet the Earth (was sustained), and from His Ears the Directions (were sustained); in this manner all the Worlds were regulated by Him.
  • In Devanagari:सप्तास्यासन् परिधयस्त्रिः सप्त समिधः कृताः ।
    देवा यद्यज्ञं तन्वाना अबध्नन्पुरुषं पशुम् ॥१५॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Saptaasya[i-A]asan Paridhayas-Trih Sapta Samidhah Krtaah |
    Devaa Yadyajnyam Tanvaanaa Abadhnan-Purussam Pashum ||15||
  • English Translation:15.1: By making Seven Enclosures with Three times Seven sacrificial [[w;Firewood|Firewood (symbolically representing various koshas etc), ...
    15.2: … the Deva (the Shining One referring to Virat) in that Yagya (Sacrifice of Creation), bound the infinite expanse of the Purusha as (apparently) finite living beings (Pashu).
  • In Devanagari:यज्ञेन यज्ञमयजन्त देवास्तानि धर्माणि प्रथमान्यासन् ।
    ते ह नाकं महिमानः सचन्त यत्र पूर्वे साध्याः सन्ति देवाः ॥१६॥
  • IPA (Sanskrit):Yajnyena Yajnyam-Ayajanta Devaas-Taani Dharmaanni Prathamaanya[i-A]asan |
    Te Ha Naakam Mahimaanah Sa-Canta Yatra Puurve Saadhyaah Santi Devaah ||16||
  • English Translation:16.1: The Devas performed the external Yagya by meditating on the real Yagya (i.e. contemplating on the Purusha Who is Shining behind everything); And thus they first obtained the Dharma (based on the Oneness of the Purusha),
    16.2: By Meditating on the Greatness of the Chidakasha (Blissful Spiritual Sky behind everyone, which is the essence of the Purusha), during those earlier times, the Spiritual Aspirants became the Shining One themselves.

Myth = Mithya : A Handbook of Hindu Mythology

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Devdutt Pattanaik, in Myth = Mithya : A Handbook of Hindu Mythology, Penguin Books India, 2008

  • The split portion of Purusha is identified as Prakriti . The two complement each other. In common parlance , Purusha is translated to mean ‘man’ while Prakriti means ‘nature’. Thus Purush can also mean ‘culture’, while Prakriti can also mean ‘woman’.
    • In p. 35
  • The object is Prakriti. Purusha is the soul; Prakriti is mind and matter. Purusha is the inner reality, without gender, name or form. Prakriti is the outer reality of gender, names and forms. Purusha is still unchanging, unaffected by time of a space; it is that which makes the body alive. Prakriti is restless and ever-changing, a product of history and geography; it is the enactment of the soul. Purusha is perfect, hence not of this world, to be defined by negation, neti-neti, not this, not that. Prakriti is everything in this world hence never perfect.
    • In pp.35-36
  • That Purusha and Prakriti exist after the androgynous beings splits itself informs us that neither does Purusha create Prakriti nor does Prakriti create Purusha. They come into existence simultaneously. Neither is autonomous. Neither can exist independent of the other. Purusha needs Prakriti and Prakriti needs Purusha.
    • In P.36
  • ...the north, the right side and all things masculine came to represent Purusha while the south, the left side and all things feminine came to represent Prakriti. Left was chosen for Prakriti because it was associated with the beating heart while the silent right was reserved for Purusha.
    • In P.36
  • ...Purusha was personified as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva while Prakriti was personified as Saraswati, Lakshmi and Shakti.
    • In p. 39
  • The period before the split between Purusha and Prakriti is Pralaya.
    • In P.40
  • The word chitta is used for the moulding consciousness; it connects the mind to the soul, manas to atma, Prakriti to Purusha.
    • In p. 45
  • Men and women who seek to celebrate the union of Purusha and Prakriti and enjoy worldly life prefer coloured clothes; red for brides, green for mothers,
    • In p. 149
  • Chinnamastika is Tantrik goddess who embodies rasa, the juice of life...By sitting on top of her lover. Prakriti is forcing Purusha to partake of life and thus create new life. By cutting her own head and drinking her blood, Prakriti reminds Purusha that no life can be sustained without consumption of another life. Rasa is what makes the world go round. Tantra is alchemy, the art of making the juice or rasa move in a desired direction.
    • In P,166
  • It is desire that links Purusha with Prakriti.
    • In P.166

The Idealistic Philosophy of Swami Vivekananda

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Gurumayum Ranjit Sharma in: The Idealistic Philosophy of Swami Vivekananda, 1 January 1987

  • The most perplexing of Samkhya system is the problem of relation between Purusha and Prakriti. Prakriti evolves a world full of woe and desolation to raise the soul from its slumber. The unrolling of the tragedy of the world is said to be necessary for the self, which remains inactive though it sees all that is presented to it...The evolution of Prakriti implies spiritual agency. But the spiritual centers admitted by Samkhya are incapable of exerting any direct influence on Prakriti; the Samkhya says that the mere presence of Purushas excited Prakriti to activity and development. Though Purusha is not endowed with creative might, Prakriti, which produces the manifold universe, is so on account of its union with Purusha. Prakriti is blind, but with the guidance of Purusha it produces the manifold universe. The union of the two is compared to a lame man of good vision mounted on the shoulders of a blind man of sure foot.
  • Though the physical world and the individual souls are real they are not independent of the supreme. They are para-tantra, while God alone is sva-tantra. Prakriti, Purusa, Kala, Karma, Svabhava are dependent. Though eternal they do not exist by their own right but by the will of the Supreme.

The Bhagavad Gita - XIII:19-20: Spirit & Maya

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Paramahasa Yogananda in: The Bhagavad Gita - XIII:19-20 Spirit & Maya, yogananda.com

  • Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modifications and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause.
    • From The Bhagavad Gita XIII:19-20
  • The Purusha mentioned here is not the Supreme Spirit (Para-Purusha) nor Its reflection in creation as Kutastha Intelligence, but the individualized soul (jiva) that is conditioned and limited by its association with the body.
  • Cosmic Nature or Prakriti is the direct creative cause of the human body and its Nature-dictated activities ("the effect"), and of the bodily senses, which are the means ("the instrument") of the experience of objective creation by Purusha, the perceiving soul. The soul then interprets its contact with sense objects in terms of either joy or sorrow derived from that experience.
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