שונרא
Welcome edit
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Natalie Wynn edit
Hi. Thanks for expanding Natalie Wynn. As you might have seen from the history, I had been gradually expanding it too, albeit much more slowly. I think a lot of what you have done is fine but I do have a few concerns.
- I don't think we have the right to put our own bold and italics on for emphasis. This isn't in the source material. I can see why you want to use it to mirror her spoken pattern of emphasis. I did consider doing so myself but I decided not to.
- I don't think that the linking is necessary. The links to Wikipapers don't seem to work reliably for me and I'm not sure that they would add anything anyway. When I did manage to get a few of them to load I found that the linked pages had no actual content. What is that about? Are you adding those deliberately or is that maybe a browser addon of yours going a bit wrong?
- I think the way that you added the headings is fine but I would like to put back the publication dates for the videos.
In general, I think that you might have gone a little overboard. I'd like to trim some of the quotes down so that the main points stand out and do not get lost. I'd also like to avoid jokes that won't make sense when quoted here, out of their original context. For example the "biological sequins" are only likely to confuse the readers. Given the extreme levels of hate she is sometimes bombarded with online, I'm also a little wary of drawing attention to any quotes which could be used, out of context, to attack her. I'd certainly like to avoid quotes from older videos that no longer reflect her views.
Don't worry. I'm not planning to blow away all your hard work but I do think that trimming it down a bit would help. --DanielRigal (talk) 00:07, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Hi DanielRigal, I appreciate your input but I think this discussion belongs on the page’s talk page rather than mine. שונרא (talk) 12:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I have restored the page to the previous version prior to these lengthy additions. Please note that you cannot add thousands or even often hundreds of word-long sections from copyrighted videos. Doing so is a copyright violation and nowhere near covered under fair use. If you want to selectively restore some quote you can, but once you have, the content need not only removed but redacted from the page history. GMGtalk 18:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I undid your edit. Trim where necessary if you think it’s a must but I think it’s important that her quotes be brought in context, with links to the vids. שונרא (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I wish you would listen to me. I do not have the time nor do I care to sort through hours of youtube videos to find quotes. You apparently do. I am purposefully not removing the content from the page history to give you time to fix it and retain some of the content. If you want to edit war over it, then I will remove it, which any administrator would be in their rights to do without discussion for any blatant copyright violation. GMGtalk 18:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I just asked Wynn herself to weigh in on this. She gets frequently harassed (and worse) because of her perceived reactionary views, and I think having quotes of hers easily available is important to counter that, but I understand why she wouldn’t want such extensive sections of her work posted this way. I’ll wait for her response and not revert the edit until she gives it. שונרא (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- If she is willing to release her videos under a free license, then yes, we could use extensive quotations without concerns regarding copyright. Most content creators are not willing to do that, and I'm afraid mere permission for Wikiquote to use content isn't sufficient for our purposes, and we would still have to stay within the limits of what is allowed by a fair use exemption. That doesn't mean we can't add quotations, but some of the sections you were adding were almost 4,000 words. That's less of a quotation and more of a transcript, and is well beyond what fair use allows us to do. GMGtalk 19:14, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I just asked Wynn herself to weigh in on this. She gets frequently harassed (and worse) because of her perceived reactionary views, and I think having quotes of hers easily available is important to counter that, but I understand why she wouldn’t want such extensive sections of her work posted this way. I’ll wait for her response and not revert the edit until she gives it. שונרא (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I wish you would listen to me. I do not have the time nor do I care to sort through hours of youtube videos to find quotes. You apparently do. I am purposefully not removing the content from the page history to give you time to fix it and retain some of the content. If you want to edit war over it, then I will remove it, which any administrator would be in their rights to do without discussion for any blatant copyright violation. GMGtalk 18:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I undid your edit. Trim where necessary if you think it’s a must but I think it’s important that her quotes be brought in context, with links to the vids. שונרא (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)