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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ambition page.

The quotes by Debs and Johnson have nothing to do with ambition so I've removed them --2001:8003:4085:8100:B89D:2B18:52A2:7D68 23:28, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

"I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks."
It's about the ambition to achive political power.
"I was pursuing the alleviation of social-economic hardship through individual advancement" by "engaging in competitive capitalist practices" Pursuit in the sense of aspiration IS a synonym of ambition. Rupert Loup 02:38, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
@Peter1c: you were who added this quotes, what's your opinion? Rupert Loup 02:43, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Though I have seldom been involved here as much as I used to be, for quite some time now, I have noticed the intransigent edit warring going on here and a few other pages along primarily partisan lines. I just did an edit restoring Burke and Franklin captions and retaining the Debs caption. I can agree the Debs quote has some clearly arguable relevance to the theme, though it is not clearly it's primary focus, but the Johnson quote much less so, and it clearly and primarily concerns other matters. I found it simply asinine to remove the Burke and Franklin quotes from captions to provide them less prominence or notice, and those quotes with far less and only tenuously relevant assertions more prominence on this page. ~ ♌︎Kalki·⚓︎ 00:53, 30 November 2019 (UTC) + tweaks
I don't have a complain about the Burke and Franklin quotes, I was concerned about the censorship and restored it to the last accepted version. You say that because it's "anticapitalist" is not about ambition, despite what I pointed here, but not elaborating in why so I will restore it. I agree that there are parts that are irrelevant and would be trimmed. Rupert Loup 02:01, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
The purported Johnson "quote" actually has further problems — it seems to have been slapped on this page simply in the caption and NOT with a sourced citation, from which one might extend some of it's slight relevance — and seeking one on the author's page, I found none, and doing a few google searches I have yet to locate more than a few instances of it, mostly derived from Wikiquote postings, and no clear and definite source, as yet. I would NOT place it in a caption as a prominently notable assertion even if a reliable source is eventually found, and would probably attempt to trim it to simply the more relevant portions. ~ ♌︎Kalki·⚓︎ 02:17, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
I agree with you, I will try to solve the problems that you pointed out and if I can't I will not restore it. Rupert Loup 02:23, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
@Kalki: I trimmed it to this with the complete source:
Under the influence of illegitimate-capitalist values, I was pursuing the alleviation of social-economic hardship through individual advancement. [...] Unaware of my class interest, I was perpetuating my own oppression by engaging in competitive capitalist practices that ensure the smooth functioning of the system as the exploiting minority profits in more ways than one off the division and disunity engendered by competition, so prevalent amongst the exploited. Look around: competition, euphemistically called “individuality,” permeates and is systematically promoted to the masses of people while the corporate conglomerations and Fortune 500 are busy “merging and monopolizing.”
Kevin Rashid Johnson, Defying the Tomb: Selected Prison Writings and Art of Kevin "Rashid" Johnson. Kersplebedeb. 2010. p. 71. ISBN 1894946391. 
As I understand it talks about the ambition of advance the social condition upward and how it is self-defeating, please correct me if I'm wrong. Rupert Loup 06:03, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
@Kalki: aslo I want to remind you that you already warned to this user about censoring. Rupert Loup 06:21, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
Kalki warned you on Talk:Purpose, and yet you went ahead and changed his edits! -- 06:32, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
  • After reading the book a little more I can confirm that the quote is about ambition. Before that quote Johnson was talking about how he "was frustrated by the lack of opportunity for social mobility." (p.64) and that "was sick of this employment arrangement. I had no car, no money, and it was tough seeing others have what I didn’t have even though I was working. I mean the social pressures to have the flyest ride, clothes, and financial mobility started to bear down on me. It’s hard for a person to be without these socially valued possessions and feel like a whole complete human being. The next day at this same job, I made up my mind that I was going to the game full time." (p.65) Rupert Loup 07:50, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
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