Talk:2020 Palghar mob lynching

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Arnab GoswamiEdit

Unexplained and repeated deletions of this quotes:

  • If this had happened in a state run by BJP, and, instead of Hindus, and let me be very direct about it, they were from any minority community, would [actor] Nasseeruddin Shah, Aparna Sen, [historian] Ramchandra Guha, [editor] Siddharth Varadarajan, and the award vapsi gang, would they have gone berserk today?... Shekhar Gupta, you hear it from me first. Whatever has been remaining of the credibility of the Editors' Guild of India has been destroyed by the abject silence on a series of fake news. It has become a self-serving organisation. I have been a member of the Editors' Guild for a long time. I, hereby, resign for absolute compromise of editorial ethics.

[ Quotes Redacted as Copyright violation.] Click the link to see the added text

[ Quotes Redacted as Copyright violation.] Click the link to see the added text

Some of many sources publishing quote and context:

Quote 1 [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]
Quote 2 [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17][18]
  • On the talk page no need to add entire copyrighted paragraphs. I have removed them as Copyright violation. you may not restore the copyright violations, without discussion. Click the link to see the added text
  • Please stop removing sourced content from Wikiquote. as you did here [19]
  • Notable: We limit ourselves to quotations which are notable. A quotation can be notable because it has achieved fame due to its enduring relevance to many people. from Wikiquote:Wikiquote. This is not the case here
The paragraph was very short, so it was not a copyright violation. The rule is to move quotes to the talkpage for discussion with an explanation. You are quoting a guideline, the criteria list is non exclusive and you have even conveniently truncated it. How is "enduring relevance" even relevant for a currently ongoing incident that started just weeks ago? "Enduring relevance" does not apply for a current event that just started recently. See also my comments at Village pump. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 10:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
You are expected to establish on this talk page first (before bulldozing in your disputed content) how these comments / rants/ libel against someone qualifies as "has achieved fame". I would like to see that evidence. I haven't found any and you have not produced any either --Pratap Pandit (talk) 15:58, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Copied from Wikiquote:Village_pump:

The case at 2020 Palghar mob lynching is very easy:
  1. Arnab is a very notable journalist.
  2. He is known for having been very vocal (and some say, controversial) about the case. So he for sure deserves a quote about this lynching case. His voice is a unique perspective on this lynching.
  3. Furthermore, Arnab's reporting had political and even physical consquences. As widely reported, Arnab and his wife were physically attacked in Mumbai while driving in their car by some leaders of the local youth Congress party.[20]
  4. And last but not least, the quotes are also pithy and eloquent.
All this makes it clear that a quote of Arnab is deserved. One could of course still discuss which quotes of Arnab to include. See also my comments above at Wikiquote:Village_pump#User:Pratap_Pandit.
I don't know if there has been a coverup in this lynching case, as some claim, but what I do know is that the way that facts and quotes have been removed on wikiquote (and wikipedia) has all the signs of a "coverup". --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 07:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
It seems my questions is not clear to you, you are expected to provide evidence in the form of significant coverage (not stories) why his rant/libel qualifies as "has achieved fame". If you cant establish this, then this libel has to be removed from this page. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 09:06, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
See my reply about this "fame" argument at Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in India. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 09:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
By the way, the quote has been quoted at several places, both in print (offline) and online media. An example is by Madabhushi Sridhar at The Hans India in the article "Multiple FIRs will muzzle free speech from 5 May 2020. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 09:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
I have asked evidence in the form of reliable sites that have published and discussed this quote. If you are utterly failing to establish the criteria of "has achieved fame ", then you have to self revert your edit or I will do it. I would prefer that you do it yourself. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 10:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
One source is needed and given, even though more have been given (see Madabhushi Sridhar above) and by reading your Indian newspapers (print/offline and online) you can find more.
See my reply about this "fame" argument at Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in India. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 09:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
It is not impossible to prove that a quote is notable, in fact if the quote is really notable, (which is not the case with your quote) you will find hundreds of newspapers publishing it and discussing about the quote. You have failed to justify the inclusion of this quote by establishing why it is notable. you are now repeating yourself. I will wait for a day to give you more time and then remove these quotes from the article.--Pratap Pandit (talk) 11:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
See my reply about this "fame" argument at Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in India. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 09:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Please follow correct indentation on talk page. I have already read your reply, it does not establish the notability or fame of this quote for this article. I will wait for a day to give you more time and then remove these quotes from the article.--Pratap Pandit (talk) 11:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
დამოკიდებულება, all the article links that you have added are discussing this quote in the context of Arnab's resignation. Please move this quote to the Arnab's Qikiquote page. They are needed over there. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 15:02, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

If the quotes are also about this topic, then we can also have them here. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 20:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

No, because all the links that you posted are talking about Arnab as the main topic. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 18:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
The quotes by Arnab talk about the lynching, the lynching is interrelated with these reports on Arnab. Besides there is also the neutrality factor here. There are 3 quotes from Anil Deshmukh, so we need to balance with an opposite pov. This lynching is a relatively small incident, but a controversial one, and multiple povs need to be quoted in a controversy, not just one pov. Why are you so much opposed to include a quote by Arnab here? --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 21:25, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
No, Quotes by Arnab just talk about baseless political attacks and libelous rant, there is nothing factual in that which is why none of the reliable sources are discussing it in an article about the incident. The only source/blogs that have reported it are talking about the thratrics of Arnab. Hence it cannot be allowed here. You can propose other quote that are more popular, instead if you have intentions to balance. I will be removing Arnab's quote soon. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 06:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
That (if true) would all be the better reason to add it! Political "attacks" and "rants" are often particularly witty, pithy, eloquent, or poignant. We don't want boring and bland quotes (in fact, if a quote were too boring and "encyclopedic" or "factual" in tone, it would be a reason to remove the quote, not to add it). The more spiced up, polemical, pitty, rant-like and poignant the quote, the better. If Alex Jones had commented on this lynching, we would for sure include his quote here. This confirms that the quote has the artfulness factor to be here, that means that is an eloquent and poingnat expression. A main rationale to add quotes in WQ. WQ:Q. If you want purely "encylopediac"/"factual" content, then you need to edit on an encyclopedia like wikipedia, not at a collection of quotes. You make the exact same arguments as you did over at wikipedia but you keep forgetting that you're not at wikipedia (an encyclopedia) but at wikiquote (A collection of quotes). For wikiquote, it is more than enough that the quote by Arnab is talking specifically about the lynching in an witty and poignant quote.

To recap,

  1. Arnab is a very notable journalist.
  2. He is known for having been very vocal (and some say, controversial) about the case. So he for sure deserves a quote about this lynching case. His voice is a unique perspective on this lynching.
  3. Furthermore, Arnab's reporting had political and even physical consquences. As widely reported, Arnab and his wife were physically attacked in Mumbai while driving in their car by some leaders of the local youth Congress party.[21]
  4. the neutrality factor. There are 3 quotes from Anil Deshmukh, so we need to balance with an opposite pov. This lynching is a relatively small incident, but a controversial one, and multiple povs need to be quoted in a controversy, not just one pov.
  5. And last but not least, the quotes are also pithy and eloquent.

You have not refuted any of these good reasons. Also, why are you so opposed to Arnab and to a particular pov on this lynching, as you were also already at wikipedia? Unlike at wikipedia, wikiquote articles like this one are read by less than a handful of people per week (see the page views), so it is not like it would good time spent for anybody to censor quotes here at wikiquote. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 15:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Removal of Notable quotes by Home MinisterEdit

User:დამოკიდებულება please explain why you have removed Notable quotes by Home Minister. That quote is published in all the national and international newspapers. Stop this disruption and propaganda. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 21:51, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@დამოკიდებულება, Pratap Pandit: Please resolve this in the village pump, but I've also left a message on what I think of the matter on Pratap's talk page. I'll give my two cents on this at the village pump if need be as well. dibbydib⌐■_■ (barate me) 08:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
I have replied about Pratap's blatantly false accusations, see my comments at Village pump. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 10:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
After reading your reply above, It appears to me that you have no reason to justify your removal of the quote that I had added. I would consider your removal as an inadvertent mistake and move on. Please do not repeat this. --Pratap Pandit (talk) 15:55, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
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