Template talk:Authority control
Latest comment: 1 year ago by DeirgeDel in topic Recent edits
ORCID
editEVula: Please can you (or someone) add ORCID to this template. This has been done on en.WP, with check-digit validation in Lua, so you might be able to copy code from there; or from the simpler version on Commons or simple.WP Pigsonthewing (talk) 09:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- OK, I added the simple version, without validation. Note that AC data can now be drawn in from Wikidata. Wikiquote editors may also register for an ORCID, and include in on their user page. Pigsonthewing (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Upgrade proposal
editThe en.Wikipedia version of this template has been upgraded and now pulls data from Wikidata. Are there any objections to replicating that here? Pigsonthewing (talk) 22:07, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Recent edits
editI have again reverted the attempt to make this use en.Wikipedia's code.
Firstly it was generating errors: "Lua error in Module:Authority_control at line 99: attempt to get length of local 'sectionNames' (a nil value)."
Secondly since I suggested doing this, (eight years ago), the en.Wikipedia version has been ruined, and no longer displays Authority control content in plain text. I don't think we should do that here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:37, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- I was updating the template with a module to generate more data. It was a work in progress. Saroj Uprety (talk) 15:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Pinging @DeirgeDel, Koavf: Saroj Uprety (talk) 15:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- You replaced a working template with a non-working template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- When it was about to work, you reverted the edit. I was importing and testing other modules and templates needed for this to work. I can fix it tomorrow if no one has a problem with it. Saroj Uprety (talk) 16:59, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks @Pigsonthewing, Saroj Uprety:. To a degree I've been driving this per Wikiquote:Village pump#Authority control with the objective and I apologise if I've thrown some people curveballs and dropped them into the soup. Obvious I'd like my P10832 values to get leveraged. Per sync from enWP to :simple there's a number of templates/modules involved and it can't be done in a single transaction and will take an amount of time, be it 5 minutes to an hour (or more), and might take multiple attempts. It really useful to have a record of the set of all the template/modules involved so it can be resysnc'd again if necessary in a prescribed manner. It might help while this is in progress to replace the template with one that indicates "Authority control" - undergoing maintenance. I'm overall happy to support anyone who feel that they can move this forward and any issues should be fed back to the English Wikipedia. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel tac 17:59, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- I raised two issues above, and your response seems to conflate them. We can pull in data from Wikidata without mirroring the dreadful situation on en.Wikipedia (consider Wikispecies' version of the template, for example, as a model). Any development should be done in a sandbox. and only switched once everything is working. And discussion significantly affecting the template, held elsewhere, should have been notified to this talk page's watchers, as a courtesy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- @@Pigsonthewing:: I apologise for not making a note of the discussion of the other discussion on this templates talk page and deserve to be sent to coventry albeit I am somewhat already there. I do feel the WMF could be doing a little more for ensuring templates like this can be kept consistent across projects as there is limited resource and skills (no disrespect to anyone here) to maintain these sort of templates, and it is easy to lose anyone who does have the skillset (and the time) leaving it hard for other to pick up.. The English Wikipedia is English Wikiquote's "big sister" Wiki and is where we normally go for assistance, and would not normally go to Wikispecies. So in one sense I would prefer that you campaigned to get your issues sorted on the English Wikipedia, (where I would likely support you if I could) and then prefer Wikiquote were to pick up the improved stuff from that. I normally refer to myself as a Containment Issue Specialist (CIS). However I think I should probably refer to myself as a Conflated Initiation Specialist]], certainly in an Authority control context given the current discussion at P7859. The key question is we have Saroj Uprety seeminly ready, willing and hopefully able to have a good faith attempt at bringing {{Authority control}} to a standard broadly consistent with the English Wikipedia sister projects of enWP and :Simple. However for the alternative of attempting to duplicate {{Authority control}} from the Species Wiki we currently to not have a volunteer and we do not have a timescale or effort estimate. I am very willing to go with consensus to do either providing P10832 gets picked up from Wikidata, but at the moment I'd be leaning to let Saroj go ahead. That's a bit of a compromise decision. -- 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC) DeirgeDel tac 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- I've skim reviewed Species:Module:Authority control and I don't think it handles P10832. Using [[:Mother Teresa] and Emile Pine as test cases I'm not seeing evidence of inappropriate non-English Language by the enWP version of the template being presented to the user on :enWP or :Simple. I am aware @Pigsonthewing: has been responsible for some development/housekeeping of the template on :Species. -- DeirgeDel tac 23:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- @@Pigsonthewing:: I apologise for not making a note of the discussion of the other discussion on this templates talk page and deserve to be sent to coventry albeit I am somewhat already there. I do feel the WMF could be doing a little more for ensuring templates like this can be kept consistent across projects as there is limited resource and skills (no disrespect to anyone here) to maintain these sort of templates, and it is easy to lose anyone who does have the skillset (and the time) leaving it hard for other to pick up.. The English Wikipedia is English Wikiquote's "big sister" Wiki and is where we normally go for assistance, and would not normally go to Wikispecies. So in one sense I would prefer that you campaigned to get your issues sorted on the English Wikipedia, (where I would likely support you if I could) and then prefer Wikiquote were to pick up the improved stuff from that. I normally refer to myself as a Containment Issue Specialist (CIS). However I think I should probably refer to myself as a Conflated Initiation Specialist]], certainly in an Authority control context given the current discussion at P7859. The key question is we have Saroj Uprety seeminly ready, willing and hopefully able to have a good faith attempt at bringing {{Authority control}} to a standard broadly consistent with the English Wikipedia sister projects of enWP and :Simple. However for the alternative of attempting to duplicate {{Authority control}} from the Species Wiki we currently to not have a volunteer and we do not have a timescale or effort estimate. I am very willing to go with consensus to do either providing P10832 gets picked up from Wikidata, but at the moment I'd be leaning to let Saroj go ahead. That's a bit of a compromise decision. -- 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC) DeirgeDel tac 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- I raised two issues above, and your response seems to conflate them. We can pull in data from Wikidata without mirroring the dreadful situation on en.Wikipedia (consider Wikispecies' version of the template, for example, as a model). Any development should be done in a sandbox. and only switched once everything is working. And discussion significantly affecting the template, held elsewhere, should have been notified to this talk page's watchers, as a courtesy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks @Pigsonthewing, Saroj Uprety:. To a degree I've been driving this per Wikiquote:Village pump#Authority control with the objective and I apologise if I've thrown some people curveballs and dropped them into the soup. Obvious I'd like my P10832 values to get leveraged. Per sync from enWP to :simple there's a number of templates/modules involved and it can't be done in a single transaction and will take an amount of time, be it 5 minutes to an hour (or more), and might take multiple attempts. It really useful to have a record of the set of all the template/modules involved so it can be resysnc'd again if necessary in a prescribed manner. It might help while this is in progress to replace the template with one that indicates "Authority control" - undergoing maintenance. I'm overall happy to support anyone who feel that they can move this forward and any issues should be fed back to the English Wikipedia. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel tac 17:59, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- When it was about to work, you reverted the edit. I was importing and testing other modules and templates needed for this to work. I can fix it tomorrow if no one has a problem with it. Saroj Uprety (talk) 16:59, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Proposal: To let @Saroj: re-attempt the set of required templates/modules from the English Wikipedia paying due diligence to minismise, mitigate or avoid service outages: -- DeirgeDel tac 23:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Withdraw:
*Support:As proposer. -- DeirgeDel tac 23:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm going to withdraw at the moment because of various factors arising in this discussion. -- DeirgeDel tac 13:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm looking at Mother Teresa and Emilie Pine as specific use cases available on :enWQ, :enWP and :Simple. Both have P7859 set on Wikidata, only Mother Teresa currently has P10832 set. :Simple/Authority control is slightly downrev from enWP in terms of {{Authority control}}; having been synced a couple of months ago. -- DeirgeDel tac 07:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Reviewing comments and actions from yesterday due dilgence is probably going to involved having a detailed plan and backout plan of all involved pages or working onto the /sandbox location(s) first for the set of involved pages. -- DeirgeDel tac 08:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The en.Wikipedia model for not displaying authority control values is sub-optimal. the Wikispecies model displays the values, and it is trivially easy for a non-coder who is reasonably competent in wiki-markup to add (or remove) properties. There will always be authority control ID properties which this project does or does not want, contrary to any other project whose code is imported. In any case it is premature to propose a specific solution while discussion of the desired general outcome is not resolved. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- P.S. I added P10832 to the Wikispecies template, in this diff; it can be seen, for example, on species:Carolus Linnaeus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:23, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Andy: I concur the en.Wikipedia model is not displaying authority control values. And we are currently displaying them here (.e.g. w:en:Virginia Hall->(VIAF); for q:en:Virginia Hall-> (VIAF: 54950083) However that is a discussion to be had and resolved at en.Wikipedia and I am surprised (or perhaps not surprised?) you have not already won that argument in that place. My personal opinion is generally very closely follows decisions on the English Wikipedia, forking from that causes issues. This all seem quite hostile and somewhat in a strange way has at least partially been caused by the P7859 attack on Joseph M. Crofts, a candidate for w:The Irish Rover. I had hoped to leverage a volunteer offer to do the job this afternoon but I have been taking peeks at things and that take-up is likely becoming unlikely.... ( need to consider Andy's last post) ... -- DeirgeDel tac 13:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm elected to withdraw my proposal for the moment as new information has come to light. -- DeirgeDel tac 13:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- "...we are currently displaying them here [...] However that is a discussion to be had and resolved at en.Wikipedia" Are you seriously suggesting that the venue for deciding the styling of Wikiquote is discussion on en.Wikipedia? That en.Wikiquote as no autonomy on the matter? If so, I'd like to see evidence of a consensus based policy to that effect. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Andy. Yes. That is my opinion. Have the discussion there. And its a bad example to shout. Cool please. The community here can be well capable of making their own decisions, but we take a lot from the English Wikipedia. They certainly don't listen to me most of the time, all the way down from the crats to the socks. But I go by community consensus or if I don't like that community consensus I'll mostly take it by exceptionally challenge from a different angle. It might look like you are trying to boar and bully and bludgeon your will on here at enWikiquote. Anyway if that discussion prevails at .en.Wikipedia the that is the version that would be sync'd here. (hopefully) Win-win. (probably need to point WQ:ANI & the pump at this discussion for third party input. -- DeirgeDel tac 18:25, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Wow. What a terribly bad-faith diatribe. And no sign of the requested "evidence of a consensus based policy to that effect". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Andy. Yes. That is my opinion. Have the discussion there. And its a bad example to shout. Cool please. The community here can be well capable of making their own decisions, but we take a lot from the English Wikipedia. They certainly don't listen to me most of the time, all the way down from the crats to the socks. But I go by community consensus or if I don't like that community consensus I'll mostly take it by exceptionally challenge from a different angle. It might look like you are trying to boar and bully and bludgeon your will on here at enWikiquote. Anyway if that discussion prevails at .en.Wikipedia the that is the version that would be sync'd here. (hopefully) Win-win. (probably need to point WQ:ANI & the pump at this discussion for third party input. -- DeirgeDel tac 18:25, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Andy: I concur the en.Wikipedia model is not displaying authority control values. And we are currently displaying them here (.e.g. w:en:Virginia Hall->(VIAF); for q:en:Virginia Hall-> (VIAF: 54950083) However that is a discussion to be had and resolved at en.Wikipedia and I am surprised (or perhaps not surprised?) you have not already won that argument in that place. My personal opinion is generally very closely follows decisions on the English Wikipedia, forking from that causes issues. This all seem quite hostile and somewhat in a strange way has at least partially been caused by the P7859 attack on Joseph M. Crofts, a candidate for w:The Irish Rover. I had hoped to leverage a volunteer offer to do the job this afternoon but I have been taking peeks at things and that take-up is likely becoming unlikely.... ( need to consider Andy's last post) ... -- DeirgeDel tac 13:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- P.S. I added P10832 to the Wikispecies template, in this diff; it can be seen, for example, on species:Carolus Linnaeus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:23, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: (Andy): A few questions. Is there a procedure for installing the Wikispecies Authority control here and is it a straight module(s)/template(s) copy? Is there any dependency conflicts with and other modules here or how they are used? It is possible to have the Template display collapsed so it does not overly occupy page space by default? And is there a volunteer who would do this? Was there a discussion on enWP about removing the display of authority control values? -- DeirgeDel tac 13:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
Way forward to get updated version
editPer conversations above I would still like to see an updated version of {{Authority control}} installed that is getting information from Wikidata, this is also the basis on which i supported removal rather than improvment of the Worldcat* template(s). I will note the following points:
- In general I would prefer a sustainable prescriptive method was used to allow diligent re-sync of affected modules from tghe English Wikipedia.
- Be aware the current version on the English Wikipedia does not display identifier values like the current version here does. This is probably not a good thing. -- DeirgeDel tac 11:15, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- There is an alternative version that is suggested to be available from Wikispecies, see above, that does display identifier values. Whether installation of that template and its dependencies would cause any conflicts I do not know. -- DeirgeDel tac 11:15, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
Views on way forward please? -- DeirgeDel tac 11:15, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- I observe this is currently stalled, and I am likely too time-crunched to do anything about this presently, maybe even until late autumn in the UK. -- DeirgeDel tac 13:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)