Talk:Heath Ledger

Support votes needed by Registered members of Wikiquote for Heath Ledger to reach Quote of the Day for 18 July 2008. This is the release date in the USA for his role as The Joker in w:The Dark Knight (film). The quote was made just before his death as he reflected on how he would wish to be remembered when he did die. Support votes with a score of between 1 and 5 will help it to be considered for usage as Quote of the Day located here at Wikiquote: [[1]]

When I die, my money's not gonna come with me. My movies will live on for people to judge what I was as a person. I just want to stay curious. ~ Interview for London's Sunday Telegraph magazine, November 2007

Ranking system:

4 : Excellent - should definitely be used. 3 : Very Good - strong desire to see it used. 2 : Good - some desire to see it used. 1 : Acceptable - but with no particular desire to see it used. 0 : Not acceptable - not appropriate for use as a quote of the day.

Boylo 06:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

bold quotes

im not sure that some of the quotes on the page should be made bold - it seems as if the ones where Ledger is referring to death or something similar have been marked out especially, which i don't think is a good thing {{w:Template:Unsigned|Unsigned}}

The use of bold typefont is incorrect. It injects point of view into the presentation of quotations in an attempt to make some appear more sigificant than others; see Wikiquote:Manual of style for information about how and when to use bold typefonts in Wikiquote and also see Wikipedia:NPOV for core policy of neutral point of view. --NYScholar 18:02, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Lack of reliable sources for verification throughout

"Sourced" does not mean simply that one gives the person's name who said a quotation; it means providing the published reliable third-party published source with URLs so that one can verify the accuracy of the quotation by the person as claimed. I worked on adding "Unsourced" to unsourced sections of comments, but an intervening edit lost my work. I had also been adding editorial interpolations indicating where URLs are still needed throughout what are said to be "Sourced" comments; many of these people being quoted are living persons: see Wikiquote:Policies and guidelines (compare to Biographies of living persons) for policies with relation to Wikiquote:Manual of style and its editing policies and guidelines. I had also created a separate section for the Medical Examiner's report and fixed problems in that presentation (it's not parallel to the comments "In Memoriam" by actors, etc.) and it is "About the manner and cause of Heath Ledger's death"--not a "memorial" comment. --NYScholar 18:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Here's the link to Wikiquote's own "draft policy" for citing sources: Wikiquote:Citing sources; this collection of quotations does not currently properly cite sources so that they are verifiable by other readers of Wikiquote. Linking to it in the main article on the subject: Heath Ledger is currently problematic due to lack of proper source citations throughout. For related Wikipedia policy guidance, please see Citing sources, with its pertinent link to Biographies of living persons policy. --NYScholar 19:02, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

These principles of reliability and verifiability need to be maintained throughout Wikiquote, as it is being linked in Wikipedia articles. Biographies and quotations attributed to and/or about recently-deceased persons (which often also contain information pertaining to other still-living persons) are still subject to core Wikipedia policies (see templates for related links in Talk:Heath Ledger. Thanks. --NYScholar 19:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, all that you have written above is true, but I'm not sure what your point is. If something is not properly sourced, move it to 'Unsourced' or if you know it, provide the source. What exactly are you expecting to happen to the page, based on your comment's above? ~ UDScott 19:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Those who added the quotations are responsible for adding the sources; I did work that was undone by an editing conflict that occurred when you changed something. I don't have time to redo all that work. If you added many of these quotations, then you as the creating editor are responsible for providing the exact sources that you used so that other readers and other editors can verify them. While some sources are given, others are not. Unofficial, self-published fansites are not considered reliable and verifiable sources in either Wikipedia or Wikiquotes, and they are not considered reliable for External links sections. I removed them from the EL section. --NYScholar 19:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

You were correct in removing the fansites as unreliable sources. As for the changes you say are lost, I don't know what you are referring to - I merely changed the formatting to the proper way that pages are laid out. I have not added any quotes to this page. And you do not need to explain to me the need for proper sourcing, as I am well aware of the need. I work on many different aspects of WQ and I too do not always have the time to devote to one single page and ensure that it is perfect. Your work is appreciated, but please understand that I was just trying to get the page closer to the way it should be - if you continue to have an interest in the subject and the page, feel free to continue to improve it. ~ UDScott 20:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup tag

While I know a lot of work was put into revising this page, unfortunately the changes have left it not in conformance with the template for people pages. This includes the use of subheadings which are not encouraged, as well as a reference section that is also not used in WQ. And while templates can always evolve over time (and may not currently represent the best way to design a page), changes should be suggested on the talk page for the template, rather than just remaking a page to fit a user's wishes. ~ UDScott 20:27, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

The problem of unsourced quotations being called "sourced" throughout previously discussed in both editing summaries and above comments. This article was already in sections of quotations before I began editing it. The way disparate kinds of quotations were grouped previously was very confusing. The Med. Examiner's report quotation should not have been in an "In Memoriam" section. I am not sure that "In Memoriam" as a section heading is entirely appropriate; the choices of quotations by Ledger are not adequately sourced so that they can be verified; the identification of sources is far too vague; exact URLs needed wherever possible and exact authors and titles of articles used as sources, with publication dates and dates of access also needed. This is a controversial subject and needs full citations as per Wikiquotes policy for citing sources of quotations called "sourced"; already linked to in above comments. If the previous user (UDScott) created most of the quotations added to this article, s/he needs to provide reliable sources that can be verified by other Wikipedia editors and readers, as per Wikiquotes policy/guidelines. --NYScholar 04:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Full citations of sources are needed for quotations being attributed to living persons throughout the article. Though I know that there are sources for many of them, it is not clear what the sources are in many cases, due to lack of source citations; please provide them. Thank you. --NYScholar 04:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as the "People" template: it needs adaptation to this particular subject; he is not the author of works, as addressed in that template. The article did not conform to this template prior to my beginning to edit it; I've provided the source citations for many quotations; how and where they are arranged in sections may need some further work. But there does need to be a manner of distinguishing quotations made by Ledger from quotations made about him. The "In Memoriam" section does not conform to the template (I did not create that section heading). --NYScholar 04:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Just to get it clear, once again: I have not added or placed any of the quotes here on the page. The cleanup tag was added for the reasons I stated - and it's not meant to point a finger at any one user. But the page does not conform to the template. And no I do not believe the template should be across the board adapted for this one person. If you or anyone else feels the template is not correct, suggest some changes on its talk page. ~ UDScott 19:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with the template. I've already revised the previous version of the page so that it is split into "sourced" and "unsourced"; the adaptation is that there are two sections: one for "By Heath Ledger" and the other for "About Heath Ledger"; the material within the two sections conforms. It would be otherwise be very difficult to read this page, and it would be too long to have all the quotations (both by and about) in one section split into "sourced" and "unsourced"; it appears to me that the current version conforms to the spirit of the template. Source citations follow guidelines in Wikiquote:Citing sources, which give information about how to use source citation templates. Due to the previous editor(s)' use of almost all the quotations given in a single source (BBC), the source citations appear necessary; otherwise there would possibly be copyright violation and/or plagiarism problems. Again, just stating "sourced" does not indicate what the actual sources used are; source citations are helpful where they enable readers to check and verify the accuracy of quotations, in keeping with both Wikipedia and Wikiquotes editing policies and guidelines. Many unclear sources were listed by earlier editor(s); I have not taken time to hunt all those down; other editors can find the precise source citations to verify and provide, if or as they wish. --NYScholar 03:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced

• Between the choreographers and me, we kind of played with it. We wanted a bit of Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire influence. It was totally choreographed and then I just made it sloppy.
  • On performing "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" in 10 Things I Hate About You

• If you are just safe about the choices you make, you don't grow.

• I'm still a kid. I'm like six years old. But it's just a matter of wanting to get up, it's just a big journey. I felt like when I left home that I was on a journey, and I still am.

• The challenge was to capture the stillness of him. I have kind of semi-frantic, nervous energy. Harnessing that was something I thought I'd have to work out. Shooting in the wilderness, the stillness became like this innate quality.
  • On his character Ennis Del Mar in Brokeback Mountain (2005).

• The Joker, so far, is definitely the most fun I've had with any character. He's just out of control - no empathy, he's a sociopath, uh, a psychotic, mass-murdering clown. And, uh, I'm just thoroughly, thoroughly enjoying it. It's just exceeded any expectations I had of what the experience would be like.
  • On his portrayal of the Joker in The Dark Knight (2008).

• The stubble.
  • Answer to question about what differentiated kissing Jake Gyllenhaal, his costar in Brokeback Mountain, from kissing female costars.

About Heath Ledger

• Heath Ledger is frighteningly young and frighteningly intelligent. He's a very hard worker, very devoted [and] not a bit spoiled or pretentious.
  • Mark Addy, actor.

• As a man and a father I look at the age of 28 to 38 as being an incredible period to go through and he was robbed of that. From my own personal experience I just thought how unbelievably tragic it is. It's shocking.
  • Eric Bana, actor.

• He's walking around with a $40 million plus film on his shoulders like he's been doing it all his life.
  • Paul Bettany, actor; costar in A Knight's Tale (2001).

• He was a very, very gifted young man. Incredibly talented.
  • Patricia Clarkson, actress.

• He does his stuff really well, he's got a real good screen presence and a lot of talent. He's more mature than I was at that age. He seems more worldly, seems to know his way around.
  • Mel Gibson, actor, whose on-screen eldest son, Gabriel Martin, was played by Heath Ledger in The Patriot.

• I've heard that before. I take it as a great compliment. I love Heath. He taught me everything I know.
  • Joseph Gordon-Levitt, actor, when asked in an interview about their resemblance.

• I just have to say that Heath is the greatest. He is an amazing person, incredible, and so Australians must be doing something right. He is just so relaxed and I feel like Australia must be like that.
  • Heather Graham, actress.

• I think Heath has a natural screen presence, he has a focus that distinguishes him from a lot of young actors. There's a depth and intelligence that is operating that's not only there, but also focused into what he is doing, being clear in what the role is, about what he's trying to achieve with it, this brings a balance with the other cast who are considerably more experienced than him in most cases, that's very important for the story to work. Without that, we would lose center, he brings that focus.
  • Marian Macgowan, producer of Two Hands (1999).

• Heath Ledger passed away this week, and in all the years we've been doing this show, we've never had cause to mention him. So, stop digging through the dirt, weasels. A talented, decent guy is gone and our thoughts go out to those who knew him.
  • Joel McHale, host of E! Entertainment Television weekly series The Soup.

• It was a very great challenge for Heath. He's extremely original, extremely frightening, tremendously edgy. A very young character, a very anarchic presence that taps into a lot of our basic fears and panic.
  • Christopher Nolan, director of The Dark Knight (2008).

• He's awesome! He's really, really charming, sexy, and just himself and natural, and he made it very easy for me to work with him.
  • Shannyn Sossamon, actress; costar in A Knight's Tale (2001).

• Heath's sexy, but it's not an I'm-better-than-you kind of sexy. He's so much fun to be around because he doesn't try to play it cool.
  • Julia Stiles, actress; costar in 10 Things I Hate about You (1999).

• He was a captivating person. [His] performance in Brokeback Mountain is beautiful. Every time you saw that guy on screen you just wanted to watch him. And it's sad, just sad that he's gone. Too young. Too young.
  • Stanley Tucci, actor.