Talk:Gilmore Girls

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Inclusion and formatting guidelinesEdit

This quote page is organized a little differently from others, largely because it can be divided into seasons and episodes and because many great quotes from Gilmore Girls are in the form of dialog, which confounds the usual quote formatting.

To add a quote, find the episode it occurs in and copy the formatting of an existing quote to your own needs. If you don't know what episode your quote appeared in, place it in the Unknown episode section, and someone will move it as time permits.

The basic formatting guidelines (as I start this page) are as follows, using this example. [NOTE: The wiki-character links need only be used the first time a character is quoted in an episode.]:

:''[Lorelai is sparring with Michel over the hotel reservation computer as she answers the phone.]''
:'''[[w:Lorelai Gilmore|Lorelai]]''': Independence Inn!
:'''[[w:Emily Gilmore|Emily]]''': I need the hat rack.
:'''Lorelai''': ''[mysteriously]'' The fish flies at night!
:'''Emily''': What?
:'''Lorelai''': I don't know. Who is this?

which will be rendered by Wikiquote as:

[Lorelai is sparring with Michel over the hotel reservation computer as she answers the phone.]
Lorelai: Independence Inn!
Emily: I need the hat rack.
Lorelai: [mysteriously] The fish flies at night!
Emily: What?
Lorelai: I don't know. Who is this?

The formatting works as follows:

  • The colon (:) indents the quote.
  • Double apostrophes ('') around context lines (explanations) italicize the text. (NOTE: These are two consecutive ' characters, NOT a "double-quote" (").
  • Triple apostrophes (''') surrounding a character name makes the name bold.
  • Double brackets ([[,]]) make the character name a Wiki link, so you can click on the character for more information.
  • The expression "w:Character's FullName|" makes the character name a link to Wikipedia, where some of the Gilmore Girls characters may have entries.
  • Don't put any blank lines between lines within a single dialog quote, but make sure there's a blank line between separate quotes.

In long dialog sections, you should only put Wiki links around the first occurrence of each character (to save time and headaches). If all this formatting is too much for your to bother with, just use a simplified version:

:[Lorelai is sparring with Michel over the hotel reservation computer as she answers the phone.]
:Lorelai: Independence Inn!
:Emily: I need the hat rack.
:Lorelai: [mysteriously] The fish flies at night!
:Emily: What?
:Lorelai: I don't know. Who is this?

Just try to remember the initial colon (:) and the blank line between different quotes. Sooner or later, someone will likely come along and pretty it up.

If you need to add an episode header, the format is this:

===Episode Title [S.NN]===

where S is the season number and NN is the number within the season. An excellent source for episode titles and numbers is TV Tome, although there are many fine sites that also provide this information. Again, if you don't know where a quote should go, just tack it on to the end of the Unknown episode section. -- Jeff Q 01:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Character listEdit

Here is a set of preformatted character names that, if you paste them into your quotes, will provide full formatting and linking abilities, including disambiguation for common names.

REGULAR CHARACTERS (including Wikipedia links)
:'''[[w:Lorelai Gilmore|Lorelai]]''':
:'''[[w:Rory Gilmore|Rory]]''':
:'''[[w:Emily Gilmore|Emily]]''':
:'''[[w:Richard Gilmore|Richard]]''':
:'''[[w:Lane Kim|Lane]]''':
:'''[[w:Sookie St. James|Sookie]]''':
:'''[[w:Luke Danes|Luke]]''':
:'''[[w:Michel Gerard|Michel]]''':
:'''[[w:Paris Geller|Paris]]''':
:'''[[w:Kirk Gleason|Kirk]]''':
:'''[[w:Jason Stiles|Jason]]''':
:'''[[w:Jess Mariano|Jess]]''':
:'''[[w:Jackson Melville|Jackson]]''':
:'''[[w:Dean Forrester|Dean]]''':
:'''[[w:Logan Huntzberger|Logan]]''':
OCCASIONAL CHARACTERS (no Wikipedia links)
:'''Miss Patty''':
:'''Mrs. Kim''':

As I write this, none of the characters have Wikipedia pages yet. If you feel adventurous, you might consider adding some pages yourself. -- Jeff Q 01:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Separating dialog segmentsEdit

There is an unresolved problem in visually separating different dialog segments. Using the Classic skin (which is essentially wikispeak for "stylesheet"), separating segments with a single blank line makes it clear that consecutive segments are separate. However, with the relatively new Monobook skin forced on anonymous users and anyone who hasn't explictly chosen otherwise, it is difficult to see where one segment ends and the next begins. This problem does not look like it'll be resolved anytime soon.

Several approaches have been tried in other articles to remedy this situation, but most only fix the problem for one skin or the other. In order to make the article clearer without adding too much blank space for one skin, I have inserted the following HTML between each pair of dialog sections:

<hr width="50%"/>

I didn't use the standard Wiki line markup "----" because it looks exactly like the horizontal lines used in Monobook headings. It would be preferable to use Wiki markup, or to have spacing between the skins match, but based on my unanswered pleas on several discussion pages, I don't see this happening. I invite comments and questions. — Jeff Q (talk) 18:20, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Custom table of contentsEdit

An anonymous user has created a malfunctioning custom table of contents for this article. This is worse than having the standard one, because it not only fails to provide proper links to all the sections, but also, in the carelessness of incomplete testing, practically guarantees that this problem will only worsen with an active show whose custom TOC needs regular updating. (This is the main reason why it's a bad idea to implement a custom TOC before a show ends its run.) Unless a registered user commits here on this talk page to maintain this TOC (or one like it) for now and the foreseeable future, I will revert this article to a standard table of contents. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

You will see that all of the links have been fixed, and with such a large number of people contributing to this page it stands to reason that it willl stay updated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 17:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry,, but there are still three links that aren't working (and 1 more that will stop working when someone fixes the "External links" heading), which you would have found if you had verified every single link as I already pointed out is a requirement for having these custom TOCs. It's not the number of editors contributing that matters; it's the need for at least one wiki-skilled editor to commit to properly maintaining the custom TOC. The fact that you've missed links even after having been told twice about this doesn't bode well. (It also doesn't help sponsor a feeling of participation that you haven't registered an ID. Users don't "own" IP addresses, so communicating with them on the IP talk page is problematic, and it is necessary for someone who commits to this level of maintenance to be easily and unambiguously reachable by the other editors who will inevitably ask why things aren't working right. I know because I've been through this on several different articles.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I checked all the links (again) and found one that wasn't working. I also cannot be responsible for problems in the TOC when someone else changes one of the headings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 14:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC), whatever you are doing when you "check" the links, you are not doing it correctly, because there are still the same 3 broken links I found last time. (I confirmed this with my own test, which took about 4 minutes.) I note that my own test last time was too hasty, as I missed the problem with "The Bracebridge Dinner", which I see is what you fixed. But I will point out that this was not someone else messing up the heading; this was an error you made when you created the custom TOC on 7 June 2006. Furthermore, I confirmed that each of the 3 errors I found was present in your original TOC. You are the one who made the mistakes that you are neither finding nor willing to take responsibility to fix.
It's a fact that custom tables of contents are very hard to maintain properly. As I've said before, everyone doing them makes mistakes — it's absolutely inevitable. The only way to counter the problems that these introduce is to ensure that whoever implements them takes the extra responsibility to maintain them, regardless of who changes the headings.
Unlike Veronica Mars, which has experienced similar problems, Gilmore Girls has so many episodes that a custom TOC is virtually required. Unfortunately, no Wikiquotian has yet shown the desire, the editing skill, and the commitment required to maintain the TOC. I wish I could afford the time to do it myself, but I can't just now. So I am leaving the remaining fixes as an exercise for the editors involved in this article, in the hope that someone cares enough about this show to do this right. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I just checked them all again and can't find the three you must be talking about. Clicking on every link has led me to its appropriate episode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 20:09, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

My role here is that of a teacher and cajoler, to try to get others to do the kind of work that makes a wiki possible (rather than doing it all myself, which is impossible, as I actively monitor over 1000 Wikiquote pages and spot-check many more). I have clearly failed here, so I will give the answers requested. Episodes "Paris Is Burning" and "Nag Hammadi Is Where They Found the Gnostic Gospels", and non-episode link "Guest stars", all have TOC entries that do not, and never have, worked. Anyone claiming to have successfully tested them is, shall we say, in error. The reason is that the capitalization is incorrect in both the link labels (which doesn't matter, but is important for style reasons) and the link itself, which is critical to make it work. It doesn't matter what computer, what browser, what time of day, what version of MediaWiki, or what version of this article thus far has been tested; it won't work for any combination of these. Furthermore, the link label for "External links" is incorrectly capitalized, although the link itself is correct and functional. These problems were introduced in the very first version of the custom TOC that created, and as far as I've been able to tell through spot-checking versions throughout the past 2 months, they have never been fixed.
I could, of course, have fixed all these things in a minute or two. But what happens when someone breaks them? What happens when the new season starts? What happens when someone plays with the background colors and accidentally breaks the wikitable formatting? These are things that regularly happen with other custom-TOC articles, and they require someone to watch for them and address them as they happen. If I could do this for the dozen or so custom-TOC articles while watching a thousand others for problems, participating in daily maintenance, welcoming newcomers, reverting vandalism and issuing warnings about such, and answering research and operational questions, I'd do it. But I can't — I'm only one person.
This article really needs a custom TOC. But if I can't drum up any combination of enthusiasm, skill, and commitment for maintaining it, I will revert it to a horribly long standard TOC. We'll just have to wait for someone to come along at a future date to shepherd this article. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
By the way, I just fixed the 4 problems mentioned above (the 3 broken links and the bad link label). Anyone wishing to see the problems before they were fixed can use the "history" tab to look at any version of the article from the one mentioned above, where the TOC was added, to the one just before I fixed it. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Last call! Last call for an editor who will take responsibility for maintaining and extending this article's custom table of contents, especially since the eighth season will start in a few weeks. If I get no takers, I will revert to a standard TOC shortly after 10 September (sooner if the episode titles become available before then, to forestall wasted effort). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I will keep the TOC up-to-date as best as possible. I'm in college and if my classes distract from this then go ahead and revert it. Meri H 18:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I've put off my reversion until at least 0:00 UTC, 12 September 2006, while waiting for Meri H to respond to my question about her wiki experience, as she has no editing history that I've found either here or on WP. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
No response, so I've removed the custom TOC. It can be restored and revised once we find an skilled editor to take on this maintenance task. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

criteria for inclusionEdit

what is the criteria for including a quote from the show. it seems like just about any line from the dialog is acceptable. Is that true? --Unbelievable 23:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There are no specific formal guidelines for inclusion, but there are many informally recommended for TV shows to keep these articles relatively succinct and avoid copyright violations. I've posted a number of these practices at Talk:Mystery Science Theater 3000, under several headings, but they can be found on many other article talk pages as well. (We were moving toward formalizing some of these in a formatting and inclusion guidelines policy page when one of our main TV-show editors ceased editing, and we have yet to regain the momentum he provided.)
I'll try to summarize some of these concisely:
  • Keep quotes to pithy essences. Transcriptions of entire scenes are a bad idea.
  • Keep context lines to one-sentence bare minimums, providing only a terse indication of the scene (for sourcing purposes)
  • Never include stage directions (e.g., [laughing], [turns around]) unless they are absolutely essential for understanding the quote.
  • If there is more context and/or stage direction than quote material, the quote probably isn't a good candidate for Wikiquote.
  • If the quote cannot be understood from the words — if it's too visual or too aural, or requires too much explanation — it's probably a bad candidate.
  • To avoid copyvio, we're trying to keep to 3-5 quotes per episode, perhaps 8 max for a very few episodes. This does not guarantee non-copyvio, but at least gives us a plausible argument that we're trying.
Because of the last guideline, editors are absolutely encouraged — pleaded with, in fact — to trim all but the most pithy, humorous, moving, or otherwise memorable quotes from each episode. In the end, each article contains what its active editors want it to contain, so it's up them (us) to do this job. The alternative, as has been demonstrated a number of times recently (and probably will be more frequently in the future), is that someone from outside will simply delete most or all of the article without notice as a likely copyvio. Let's avoid this if we can. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the helpful explanation! Unbelievable 20:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
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