Talk:Cult/Archive 1

Zappaz

Zappaz, I find the first quote a bit long. Can you try to shorten it? Andries 12:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The following quote seeems to be off-topic

"We often seem most comfortable with people whose religions consist of nothing but a few private sessions of worship and prayer, but who are too secularized to let their faiths influence the rest of the week. This attitude exerts pressure to treat religion as a hobby."

Stephen Carter, The Culture of Disbelief: How American Law and Politics Trivialize Religious Devotion

The author does not discuss cults. See [1] Andries 11:45, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Very much on topic... one person's selfless devotion is often considered by others to be that person's senseless fanaticism: the distinguishing thing to my mind is usually how tolerant and accepting people are of others right to differ from them, and pursue paths of faith, doubt, exploration and behavior other than their own, so long as it does not violate the equal rights of others.

Most people who are devoted in a more than casual way to some particular traditions, beliefs or cause, make people who aren't devoted to much of anything beyond their own personal comfort very uncomfortable. As well they should be when the "devotions" involve impelling others to suffer various forms of danger, loss, or injury. But when it remains a common thing to ridicule and mock any person whose faith or beliefs are unusual or extraordinary, the fanaticism of intolerance and oppression becomes quite an easy and acceptable thing to many, and something they can indulge in quite casually, even towards those who are themselves most benevolent or benign.

Even the word "cult" despite its modern use in a denigrative way that implies a blind fanaticism to a closed society, is a word that has historically been used in a far more benign way, for traditions of mild and casual devotions as well as those of more rigorous and exclusive form. ~ Achilles † 12:32, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, on second thoughts, you are right that this quote is on topic for the article w:cult (religion), but it is off-topic for w:cult. May be this entry should be split in two entries, following the example of Wikipedia. Andries 17:33, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Poorly sourced quotes, moved to talk page from main quote page

Attributed

• A central issue confronts[ed] at the outset is the definition of a cult. As he rightly points out, one person's cult is another's religion; all religions begin life as cults. An alternative definition is that a cult is a religion which you happen to dislike. . . . "cult" is a four-letter word.
  • Anthony Campbell, review of David V. Barrett's The New Believers

• The most dangerous lie is that which most closely resembles the truth.
  • Jan Groenveld, Australian anti-cult activist and ex-member of the Jehovah's witnesses

• Despite all the elegant rhetoric about the Pilgrim fathers...Amerian has not set an exemplary record in the area of religious freedom. The English Calvinists who settled in Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay did not come to found a society where spiritual liberty would reign supreme. They came to found a theocracy, as the four Quakers...who were hanged on Boston Common between 1659 and 1661 soon found out. Unpopular and unconventional religious beliefs and practices were not only unwelcome, they were not tolerated. Roger Williams, a Baptist, was hounded into the frozen wilderness. When Henry Dunster, the president of Harvard College, decided not to have his fourth infant baptized because he had come to accept adult baptism, he was forced to retire. Later on, in other parts of the country, Mormons, Jews, Masons, Jesuits, and ordinary Roman Catholics felt the hard edge of harassment and discrimination because of their religious convictions. A couple of generations ago, Jehovah's Witnesses were the main target of prejudice. Now we have the 'cults.' It seems Americans are never really happy unless there is some unfamiliar religious group to abuse. The spirit of theoracy lingers on.
  • Harvey Cox, Thomas Professor of Divinity, Harvard University

• Actually, it's all quite simple. Like many dramatic terms, "brainwashing" is a metaphor. A person can no more wash another's brain with coercion or conversation than he can make him bleed with a cutting remark. If there is no such thing as brainwashing, what does this metaphor stand for? It stands for one of the most universal human experiences and events, namely for one person influencing another.
  • Thomas Szasz

• When you meet the friendliest people you have ever known, who introduce you to the most loving group of people you've ever encountered, and you find the leader to be the most inspired, caring, compassionate and understanding person you've ever met, and then you learn the cause of the group is something you never dared hope could be accomplished, and all of this sounds too good to be true -- it probably is too good to be true! Don't give up your education, your hopes and ambitions to follow a rainbow.
  • Jeannie Mills (aka Deanna Mertle), early defector from the People's Temple and co-founder of the Concerned Relatives and the Human Freedom Center

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Poorly sourced quotes, above, moved to talk page from main quote page. Don't add back unless fully cited. -- Cirt (talk) 19:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Missing source info, moved to talk page

• We conclude . . . that the vast bulk of scientific findings — whatever clinical, field observation or survey methodologies used — never supported the ACM [anti-cult movement] perspective that most "cult" members were duped or psychologically shanghaied into membership, coercively maintained in subservience as slaves or impaired in any meaningful way through their membership.
  • Shupe, Bromley and Oliver, The Anti-Cult Movement in America

The Anti-Cult Movement in America: A Bibliography and Historical Survey. New York: Garland Press, 1984. (Shupe, David G. Bromley and Donna L. Oliver) i-xiii. I dunno the page nr. Andries (talk) 16:52, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

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Missing source info, moved to talk page from main quote page. -- Cirt (talk) 19:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)