Talk:Benito Mussolini

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power

This quote: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." does not appear in Enciclopedia Italiana 1932, although often cited to this source. It is very likely not an accurate quote. If anyone can find a source, please post the cite here. The quote has been debated and removed from the Wikipedia pages. Best to post it and then point out it is Questionable.--Cberlet 13:08, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Someone has posted: "[The quote is from Giovanni Gentile, not Mussolini.]" What is the evidence for this? Thanks. --146.115.95.222 02:14, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

"This appears to be part of a definition of fascism written by Mussolini for the Italian Encyclopedia (1932) edited by Giovanni Gentile. Unfortunately I cannot find a reliable online source for you." so it should suffice to say it is "attributed to Mussolini". -Kolyvansky (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

In a speech in November 1933 (translated in George Seldes's 1935 Sawdust Caesar, p. 426), Mussolini said, “Corporationism is above socialism and above liberalism. A new synthesis is created. It is a symptomatic fact that the decadence of capitalism coincides with the decadence of socialism. ... Corporative solutions can be applied anywhere.” —This unsigned comment is by 199.101.176.90 (talk • contribs) .

Mussollin was credited with the text, which Gentile probably wrote, but the quote still does not apepar as cited.--Cberlet 19:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn't that "corporativism" anyway (which I think what the fascist regime's economical structure was called.) User:213.89.77.160 00:33, 6 May 2006

Yes, someone is confusing "corporations" with "corporativism". Quote is still wrong.--Cberlet 19:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The question here is not the definition of corporativism, or corporatism, but the definition of "corporate power".

A question was asked about this quote on google answers - no definitive answer, but some interesting references http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=280606 .. Quoted below..

"I am responding to manticore1234-ga's comment, and in a way, also to the fact that your question was not answered to this point.

I conducted an extensive Research on the question. I too, like manticore1234, found sources that claim that the source is the article "La Dottrina del Fascismo", written actually by the Fascist philosopher/thinker Giovanni Gentile, and published under Mussolini's name in the Enciclopedia Italiana. However, when you go to that article (http://www.piralli.it/dottrina.htm and a full translation in http://cosmo.slique.net/~vikrum/mirrored/texts/mussolini/fascism/) you find that the only reference to corporatism is in section VIII, and not in these words. Of course, one would need a hard-copy of this encyclopaedia, to be sure that it is not in other articles. I also found no source that originally refers to this quotation in Italian."

As the only source for the quote is secondary and published sixty years after Mussolini died (in a book about the United States written by an American without Italian language proficiency) I recommend it be removed, especially in light of the gross misuse of this quote over the years and noted false citations involving it. Furthermore as the quote is used in Crossing the Rubicon to express the common misconception that the "corporations" in corporatism are the same thing as modern limited liability businesses it strongly suggests Ruppert had no knowledge of the actual quote or its context or original source. --71.230.38.50 04:24, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I was so puzzled by the provenance of this quote, which was most prominently circulated by Bobby Kennedy Jr. at the time that I created a dual language page at my earliest website. I searched both the original and the translation as best I could, and found nothing that could explain it. http://home.gwi.net/~jscarp/La%20Dottrina%20del%20fascismo.htm ProudPrimate (talk) 15:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Here's what might be a useful article for examining this supposed quote: http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-files-mussolini-on-fascism-and-corporatism/ --John Sawyer (talk) 23:52, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Methinks he, the skepticallibertarian, doth protest too much. - Kolyvansky (talk) 14:46, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

"Former Italian dictator, Benito Mussolini, is quoted as saying, “Fascism should more appropriate be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.

However, The Italian word Mussolini used was corporazione, which means guild, not corporation." [ https://fauxcapitalist.com/2010/04/20/fascism-is-not-the-merger-of-government-and-corporations/ ] --JamesPoulson (talk) 23:17, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

At its core, the quoted saying is incompatible with fascism and frankly nonsensical. Under fascism, the state uses the market efficiency of capitalism to regulate and control the economy, namely by concentrating market shares to a relatively few large corporations into cartels, which in turn the fascist state has direct control over. Whereas, corporatism is state control by large interest groups, commonly pictured as large multi-national corporations with monopolistic powers. In other words, the controlling party under corporatism is the reverse of that under fascism.

"Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State."

The Doctrine of Fascism (1932) by Benito Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile 64.53.249.5 17:54, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Quote from Gorizia

On July 31, 1942, during the Italian offensive against partisans in southern Slovenia, Mussolini visited Gorizia and held a speech. Among others he is supposed to mention that "Slovenians should be killed like dogs". Since my Italian is very very poor, is this article about this? Otherwise I have some fragments of this speech in Slovenian but I am examining the npov of the source at the moment...

Google gives me nothing on that, sorry.

In Gorizia Mussolini said (this is Slovenian translation from Italian):

"Ta dežela, ki je uživala skozi dvajset let našo posebno pažnjo, skrb in ljubezen, se je izrodila tako, da bo treba strupeni sad pokončati z ognjem in mečem. V službi nam smrtno sovražnih držav in z njih pomočjo se organizirajo tolpe morilcev, tatov in banditov, ki ogrožajo našo vojsko, jo zahrbtno napadajo in sramote. In tem tolpam je domače prebivalstvo prijazno, jih ščiti, jim daje vsakršno potuho. Preden bi mogel roditi ta proces razkrajanja hujše posledice, ga moramo prestreči. In storili bomo kakor Julij Cezar z nepokorno Galijo: požgal je uporne vasi do tal, poklal vse moške ali jih oddal v vojsko, ženske, starce in otroke pa odpeljal v sužnost daleč od doma."

Rough translation in English would be: This country, which enjoyed our special care and love through 20 years, has degenerated, so we must destroy this poisonous fruit with fire and sword. In service of our enemies, bands of murderers, thieves and bandits are organized, which are endangering our army, attacking it from the back and ashaming it. Local residents are friendly with this bands, are protecting them and giving them connivance. Before this proces of deterioation gives to birth much worse consequences, we must intercept it. And we will do what Julius Caezar did with disobedient Gauls: he burned rebelious willages to ground, he slaughered all men or put them in the army, and he led women, old people and children in slavery far from their homes.

smthing like that :)

"Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy"

To Edwin L James of the New York times in 1928

-- Could not find anything that supports that this quote was made by him (also considering Mussolini was not fluent in English). I searched in both Italian and English, and that quote seems to not exist. -- El12345

Unsourced

• Don't worry, papa, I know there is no such person as God.
  • To his strongly atheistic father before leaving for a boarding school run by Salesian monks.

• The first thing is the state — and from the state are derived the rights and fate of the people. Humans come second.
  • 1932

• The history of saints is basically the history of insane people.

• What is one life in the affairs of the state?
  • After running down a child in his car

• It's good to trust others, but not to do so is much better.

• Racism is for the blondes (Germans).

• Ruling the Italians is not difficult; it's pointless.

• Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.

• The Mediterranean sea is our Italian Mare Nostrum.

• The function of a citizen and a soldier are inseparable.

• He is a pederast.
  • Said about Hitler before the two were allies (he accused Hitler of assassinating his friend, Austrian dictator Engelbert Dollfuß).

Another new quote

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." I know he said this, but I can't find the source. Does anyone else know? --Xhaoz 18:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Sir,

This fabricated quote has long been a favorite of two-bit propagandists on both the political left and far-right (the libertarian, free-market capitalists). Mussolini never made the statement and his economic program was not based on the notion of the aggrandizement of business corporations. Rather, corporatism is based on the specific inclusion of labor, state and other peripheral forces in economic structuring. The labour charter of 1927 also clearly stipulated that in instances where private initiative in business became deficient, or where state interests were decisive, nationalization would be utilized. This is not surprising, as nationalized enterprise continued to exist in Italy throughout the duration of Mussolini's first political order and became further cemented in his last order, the short-lived Italian Social Republic.

--Xhaoz (talk) 18:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

This is explained in Fascism is not the merger of government and corporations. --JamesPoulson (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Apparent troll postings

here's interesting link on mussolini + 16 others executed: www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm

—This unsigned comment is by 69.219.216.130 (talk • contribs) . they should have had quick trial no matter what, otherwise those who did this are no better than executed, lol

—This unsigned comment is by 66.2.70.34 (talk • contribs) .

The page is locked but that's good enough for me to make my point, same info will eventually go somewhere else, on one of other articles no problem!

It is important to note who esle died with mussolini, simply reverting it with idiotic explanations only shows how some people are ignorant, dont have capabilities to hold healthy conversations on wikipeedia or anywhere else, such actions only make articles look lackin info, so idiotic as this one is.

—This unsigned comment is by 66.2.70.34 (talk • contribs) .

The above posts were made related to an apparent desire to edit the intro with various forms of non-essential and initially incorrect information. I don't have time to comment further right now, as I must be leaving — but there is substantial evidence this is simply troll activity, active over the last few days at least, and not someone who is intent on being a serious contributor. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 22:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

you simply cant go around saying its troll,

words like: "here's interesting link on mussolini + 16 others executed: www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm they should have had quick trial no matter what, otherwise those who did this are no better than executed, lol - ; The page is locked but that's good enough for me to make my point, same info will eventually go somewhere else, on one of other articles no problem! - It is important to note who esle died with mussolini, simply reverting it with idiotic explanations only shows how some people are ignorant, dont have capabilities to hold healthy conversations on wikipeedia or anywhere else, such actions only make articles look lackin info, so idiotic as this one is." is all valid, ideas are good! information is not incorrect when proper website given, learn something dude! —This unsigned comment is by 64.107.3.6 (talk • contribs) .

Every anarchist is a baffled dictator

Here is a quote floating around on the web that isn't on the page.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/2hkcs1/every_anarchist_is_a_baffled_dictator_well_maybe/

Does anyone know if Benito Mussolini actually said this and where it comes from? --JamesPoulson (talk) 23:05, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

The quote in English is from The Golden Book Magazine Vol. 16 (1932), p. 206. It's a translation of what Mussolini said to Emil Ludwig (Colloqui con Mussolini, 1932): "In ogni anarchico sta dentro un dittatore fallito" (which actually translates as "a failed dictator", not "baffled"). The original quote from their conversation might be in German (a language I don't know). If you look at the English translation from the German by Eden and Cedar Paul (Talks with Mussolini, 1933), they render it: "every anarchist is a dictator who has missed fire." (p. 67). ~ DanielTom (talk) 00:01, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Google translates the original quote, in Italian, that Daniel provides above, as "In every anarchist is inside a dictator failed", which when you correct the automatic translation's grammar, gives us "Inside every anarchist is a failed dictator." I can't see how someone would have ever translated the word "fallito" as "baffled".--John Sawyer (talk) 23:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Fascism entirely agrees with Mr. Maynard Keynes, despite the latter's prominent position as a Liberal

Is this quote authentic?

I'm asking because the Liberal label is very specific to modern U.S. politics.

It goes back to FDR's adoption of the word after progressive became a political liability as a result of happenings linked to the prohibition. --JamesPoulson (talk) 04:25, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

So can we all agree that america is Fascist now?

https://www.thedailyfodder.com/2021/02/breaking-biden-just-held-private.html

How is this relevant to this page? --ო ~ ^#SheSaid 19:34, 27 February 2021 (UTC)