Last modified on 27 January 2015, at 18:27

User talk:Kalki

I have submitted a request for adminship status at
Wikiquote:Requests for adminship/Kalki (4th request)‎‎.
Your consideration is welcome.

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Love rules without rules.

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What's So Bad About Feeling Good?
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Kalki · archives: X · index · iota · imago · αnima · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · controversies · assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · outrages · 2011 · contentions · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · 2015 · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box · Heroes · OZ · OASIS ·
The imperialist ideology of force, from whatever side it comes, must be shattered for all time.
~ The White Rose ~
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THE CORRUPT FEAR US · THE HONEST SUPPORT US · THE HEROIC JOIN US.
~ ANONYMOUS ~
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The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians.

~ George Orwell ~
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I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy.
~ George Washington ~
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Every morning
I shall concern myself anew about the boundary
Between the love-deed-Yes and the power-deed-No
And pressing forward honor reality.

We cannot avoid
Using power,
Cannot escape the compulsion
To afflict the world,
So let us, cautious in diction
And mighty in contradiction,
Love powerfully.

~ Martin Buber ~
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What's outside of Pleasantville?
~ Gary Ross ~
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My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchyphilosophically understood, meaning abolition of control … The most improper job of any man … is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.
~ J. R. R. Tolkien ~
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If rules make you nervous and depressed, and not desirous of participating in the Wiki, then ignore them and go about your business.
~ Lee Daniel Crocker ~
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I AM an Anarchist.
All good men are Anarchists.

All cultured, kindly men; all gentlemen; all just men are Anarchists.
Jesus was an Anarchist.

~ Elbert Hubbard ~

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Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
~ Jesus ~
in
Matthew 10:16

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Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee:
Love, and do what thou wilt.

~ Augustine of Hippo ~
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Love works magic.
It is the final purpose
Of the world story,
The Amen of the Universe.
~ Novalis ~

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Whatever pretended pessimists in search of notoriety may say, most people are naturally kind, at heart.

~ James Branch Cabell ~
in
The Cream of the Jest

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Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
~ G. K. Chesterton ~
in
The Man Who Was Thursday

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The law of levity is allowed to supersede the law of gravity.

~ R. A. Lafferty ~

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Of course I'm sane, when trees start talking to me, I don't talk back.

~ Terry Pratchett ~
in
The Light Fantastic

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A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.

~ William Blake ~
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Something always manages to draw me near the tree that lightning is about to fall upon.

~ Roger Zelazny ~
in
Lord of Light

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The realization that life is absurd and cannot be an end, but only a beginning. This is a truth nearly all great minds have taken as their starting point.
~ Albert Camus ~

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As soon as men live entirely in accord with the law of love natural to their hearts and now revealed to them, which excludes all resistance by violence, and therefore hold aloof from all participation in violence — as soon as this happens, not only will hundreds be unable to enslave millions, but not even millions will be able to enslave a single individual.
~ Leo Tolstoy ~

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There is no justice in following unjust laws.
~ Aaron Swartz‎‎ ~

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That which is not just, is not Law; and that which is not Law, ought not to be obeyed.
~ Algernon Sydney ~

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There is no greater mindlessness and absurdity than to force conscience and the spirit with external power, when only their creator has authority for them.
~ Ferenc Dávid ~

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Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your own home.
Good Omens

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There probably is a God. Many things are easier to explain if there is than if there isn't.
~ John von Neumann ~
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God is an Iron.
~ Spider Robinson ~
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
~ Albert Einstein ~
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Noia 64 apps karm.png This user has been on Wikiquote for
11 years, 5 months, and 16 days.
111,111+
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With this and other accounts I have made over 122,223 contributive edits, created well over 1001 pages and done substantial work on well over 1000 more, some of which are listed here. JUL Soul Iris.png
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This is the primary account of Kalki, who has also used many other account-names here, some since the very first days of this Wiki.

"If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it."
Foundational Principles against overly-controlling forces developing on the wikis.
Even if you have read them before, PLEASE EXAMINE ANEW: Wikipedia:Ignore all rules, and the other links available there, including the links delineating much which Wikipedia was NOT.
These were some of the earliest directives established by the founding workers on the Wikimedia projects.

"Ignore all rules: If rules make you nervous and depressed, and not desirous of participating in the wiki, then ignore them entirely and go about your business." ~ RulesToConsider
"IAR is policy, always has been" ~ Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales

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I am in a period of very intermittent but gradually developing activity here : I was once an admin here (from 29 January 2004 to 1 December 2009), but being that no longer, there is far less usefulness or need for my regular presence, and I am far less inclined to spend as much time monitoring as many things. I continue to serve, protect and develop this project to the extent I can amidst many other concerns, but I follow no set schedule. A devotion to preserving and expanding many forms of Awareness, Life, Love and appreciation of the principles of Justice, Unity Liberty and Joyous Universalist Love in truly profound and genuine ways far beyond that of lip-service, based on an intense commitment to the crucial virtues of humility, courage, honesty and compassion, continues to guide me and abide with me. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 04:44, 7 December 2009 (UTC) + tweaks Kalki·· 04:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit

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We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions.
Yet seen from the another's vantage point, as if new, it may still take our breath away.

~ Alan Moore ~
in
Watchmen

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Everybody is special.
Everybody.
Everybody is a hero, a lover, a fool, a villain, everybody.
Everybody has their story to tell...

~ Alan Moore ~
in
V for Vendetta

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I love my BELOVED
… ooh …
ALL and Everywhere.

~ Kate Bush ~

A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation.
He hardly knows which is which.
He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing.
To himself, he always appears to be doing both.
~ L. P. Jacks ~

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The Dude abides.
I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
It's good knowin' he's out there.
The Dude.
Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners.

~ The Stranger ~
in
~ The Big Lebowski ~
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I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.
~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama ~
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The words "God is love" have this deep meaning: that everything that is against love is ultimately doomed and damned.
~ Halford E. Luccock ~

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I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal, but because there is no such thing as a final goal.
~ Rudolf Rocker ~
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I've never seen anybody really find the answer, but they think they have.
So they stop thinking.

But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom.
The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer.
~ Ken Kesey ~

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Edit

Kalki· archives: index · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · November 2009 Controversies · Assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · Outrages of 2010‎‎ · 2011 · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · 2015 · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box ·

My years are not advancing as fast as you might think.
~ "Phil" ~
in
~ Groundhog Day ~


Edit

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Kalki · archives: X · index · iota · imago · αnima · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · controversies · assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · outrages · 2011 · contentions · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · 2015 · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box · Heroes · OZ · OASIS ·


Busy, and busier, and busier — again...Edit

As I actually expected I might be, I am beginning to take on many more tasks, elsewhere, on other projects, some of them on the internet, at the early part of this year, though somewhat differently than I expected, I did not have quite so much time to attend to some matters here as I would have liked, before doing so. I continue to expect to be here nearly daily, and will continue to do what I can among many other concerns. I actually expect that very soon a few other sites will probably receive far more of my time and attention than this one, until perhaps the spring or early summer (of the northern hemsiphere), when I might have more time to do more here once again. I am NOT promising that, but am hoping for it. SOME of the things I do on at least one or two other sites I intend to become more active on will probably eventually be useful for some of the tasks I believe necessary to address here, but they will probably need much work apart from anything directly helpful here for some time yet.

I might eventually link to at least one or two sites where I do work under other names by the end of the year, so that broader perspectives on my activities here and elsewhere can be appreciated — but I am not promising that either. I remain a person very reticent about providing much personal information needlessly to anyone on the internet, and encourage others to be so also, for I am very aware that many are the forms of truth which can EASILY be distorted or otherwise misused by the unscrupulous in various ways, as an abundance of activities familiar to many can easily illustrate.

Just within the past few days, I have been very significantly reminded by a few coincidences or synchronicities, to the profound aptness of some of the observations of poets, philosophers and story-tellers of the ages, and just within the last hour or so, prompted to significantly note the remarks of Immanuel Kant: So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world.

Right now, I must again prepare to leave, but expect to be back here and do a few necessary things, within a few hours, but must attend to a few other matters first. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 01:23, 6 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Special:Diff/1833471Edit

Hi. I was wondering about this revert of me. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere there's a bright-line rule of a maximum of 250-words per quote. Mind you, I'm extremely new to Wikiquote, but I'd still like to know what's up. Cheers, --L235 (talk) enwiki 01:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikiquote. I have been about to leave for some time, and you caught me just in time as I was about to actually do so — but I will note before my departure that whatever limits may have been suggested and accepted by a few people interesting in impressing "hard limits" on others in various ways, has been a VERY small minority of people, and I, for one have always favored very loose guidelines that permit and acknowledge the FACT that fair usage of quotes is NOT something that has been established in such terms, and many of the suggestions on limits should be merely that, unless they clearly are reaching genuine copyright violation regions. I believe that many of these efforts at being over-bearing with rigid rules by a few have driven many others away from here, and even some of the people who are more inclined to creating rigid rules have acknowledged some of the limits that have been presented thus far are a bit more stringent than necessary. I probably will seek to address and clarify such issues further within a couple of months, and perhaps address them a bit within the next few weeks. ~ Kalki·· 01:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
If I may, I would also point out that the so-called limits remain part of a proposed guideline and as yet are not official policy. That being said, we try to keep things within reason. In this particular case, I agree with Kalki that the given quotes (even if the policy were officially in place) rise to the level of at least discussion related to an exception. In the end, I tried to enact a compromise by cutting portions of the quote and splitting it into smaller bits. ~ UDScott (talk) 01:13, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


The future must not belong to slanderers.Edit

On seeing him active for the first time since 19 December 2014, I posted this greeting to DTom's talk page, as I do generally appreciate many of his contributions, and his general frankness of opinion, even though I do believe him to be generally far more belligerent towards others than is either properly respectful of individuals, or of some forms of prudence in dealing with them:

Glad to see you back.
Happy New Year! I had been a bit worried at your lack of activity lately. Welcome back. ~ Kalki·· 03:21, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
That was followed the next day by the following post here, which I repositioned so as to focus on truths of potentials for Humanist Unity in Ethical resolves, rather than what I regarded as clearly bigoted distortions of truths:
DanielTom chose to start this section of my talk page, with the title "Quote Of The Day" and images and quotes I believe clearly designed to inflame, promote and encourage various forms of religious and political bigotry, and little qualm in using and manipulating some distortions of truth promoted by adherents to both racial and religious bigotries. I have renamed it, and added more context to the quote of President Obama's speech opposing ALL forms of religious bigotry — something MANY blind and arrogant bigots do not wish to even perceive, let alone openly acknowledge.
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The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt — it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted "Muslims, Christians, we are one." The future must not belong to those who bully women — it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons. The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country's resources — it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs; workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the men and women that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support. The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied. Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: "Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit." Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, and that is the vision we will support.
~ Barack Hussein Obama ~

The following is DanielTom's effort to denigrate and desecrate Truth by making Fairness SEEM Foul, and his foul efforts fair:
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The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.
~ Barack Hussein Obama ~

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(Actually for yesterday.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:26, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


The future must not belong to slanderers. PERIOD. ~ Kalki·· 13:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


There was MUCH of an angry and outraged response I typed out to the above atrociously arrogant and bigoted distortions of diverse and divergent matters, which DanielTom had posted earlier, but I was too busy to refine it and take some aspects of the anger out earlier, before posting it, and did not wish anger to be a final word on my part, before attending to other things.

Clearly a tragic crime against rational ethical and mystical integrity of Humanity was committed by some arrogant oppressive terrorists, whose levels of mystical ethical and rational competence does not match that of a healthy and sane four your old child. Far less tragic but similarly pathetic crimes are doubtless committed by trolls worldwide, eager to use such examples of the brutal obnoxious bigotry of others to justify and magnify the powers of their own forms of brutal obnoxious bigotry.

MANY are the crimes against Justice, Unity, Liberty, and Love of Humanity and Humanist Hopes of Happiness which have been committed by the extremely ignorant and confused who in their brutalities declare themselves to be acting in the "name" of YHWH, in the name of Allah, in any of the far more than nine billion names of God, and some even in the name Mercy or Truth, Justice, Unity, Liberty and Joyous Universal Love of Humanity.

What words or excuses or justifications those DRIVEN by HATREDS and FEARS of other human beings into acts of profound villainy, depravity, or cowardly support or promotion of such acts MUST be disregarded as rather incidental — it is ever their BIGOTRY and EVIL which MUST be opposed. Those who seek to fight against Extremist BIGOTRY by promoting forms of their own SERVE and ARE ENSLAVED ENSLAVERS to the process of fear-mongering and hate-mongering bigotry. MANY are the cowards and villains who would like to silence or ignore the abilities of any others to make any comparisons of the tactics of hate-mongering and fear-mongering which THEY make to those who are the most extremely depraved examples of such impulses as terrorists and many types of psychopathic and sociopathic killers provide. Such people want to go on promoting hate and ENCOURAGING new forms of terrorism, even if they do not involve themselves directly in such risky endeavors, and should be EXPOSED for doing so, vigorously, and may the wise be ever able to forgive them, and try to find ways to help them come to ranges of sanity and greater levels of human Awareness, Life and Love.

APPARENTLY, because I do not vilify nor seek to vilify all muslims and all of Islam because of the ACTS of some EXTREMELY DELUDED nihilistic terrorists who might actually believe themselves to be "good Muslims" (as are many who view themselves "good" Christians, or "good" Jews or "good" ANYTHING to the EXCLUSION of others), DanielTom seems to think I should be abused and mocked and insulted because I do not and CANNOT agree with him that there is "goodness" or even "greatness" in his particular blanket bigotry and hatred of MANY of the diverse cultures of Islam.

The following was just one portion of a much larger declaration of anger that I did not choose to post, in response to DanielTom's presumptions:

I DO hope you SOON can and DO get over your sick forms of bigotry, even as I hope the world gets over the affliction of MANY forms of it, SUCH people as YOU and the supporters of ANY form of tyranny or terrorism indulge in. Truth is ever a blessing, and I am providing you true indications of my opinions, to counter what apparently are your delusions about them. ONLY by the honing away of BRUTAL BIGOTRIES through confrontations with ALL-embracing Truths can human minds and souls be HEALED from the ways of foulest hatred and indifference towards their fellow human beings. I am a Humanist, just as much as I am a Universalist Mystic, and I am NOT inclined to either punish others needlessly, NOR let them punish me or others needlessly. YOUR ignorant efforts to anger me succeeded. If you actually think that GENUINE anger at your acts OR those of any terrorist idiots will make me renounce my VERY broad humanistic tolerance of WIDE ranges of scientific and mystical symbolism and expressions, which are NOT idolatrous, and INCLUDES those found to varying extents in MANY and even most forms of atheism, paganism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and MANY other traditions, you are mistaken. You have, however succeeded in disrupting me from attending to many things PROBABLY more important than VENTING my anger, so if you want to feel "proud" of that waste of my time and yours, go ahead.

I have stated many times, that though I certainly am NOT an advocate of initiating any unjust form of violence against ANYONE, I am also NOT what some might regard as a "pacifist", inclined to placidly submit to it, or advise others to do so, especially if this serves the most aggressive oppressors more than it serves prudence — but close my comments with a posting of what had actually been the QOTD layout on the date of this disgraceful incitation to bigotry, which is a reminder that there are MANY grave dangers in this world — ALL of them involving BIGOTRY and CALLOUS DISREGARD of Human life and human rights — and not all of them motivated by quasi-mystical excuses so much as selfish and social IGNORANCE and CONFUSION. There are ALSO opportunities for progress, greater understanding and truly honorable Peace, and Serenity and these are such things as the wise ever strive to help all Humanity attain. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 22:44, 8 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

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The psychological basis for the use of nonviolent methods is the simple rule that like produces like, kindness provokes kindness, as surely as injustice produces resentment and evil. It is sometimes forgotten by those whose pacifism is a spurious, namby-pamby thing that if one Biblical statement of this rule is "Do good to them that hate you" (an exhortation presumably intended for the capitalist as well as for the laborer), another statement of the same rule is, "They that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind." You get from the universe what you give, with interest!

~ A. J. Muste ~
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further contentions…Edit

After the above postings there was no response here, but then I posted to his talk page some of my responses to seeing more postings of quotes of anti-Islamic bigotry, which have become something of a typical theme for him, at times, though thankfully not an exclusive ones, and he still provides much of FAR better worth:

I will not rescind my greetings of good will, but you truly have seemed to become little more than a derisive and denigrative troll since you have returned to activity. I hope you eventually can see beyond the darkness of your own soul as well as that of terrorists and tyrants and other ignorant and confused fools who practice and promote such bigotry and unjust intolerance as you can recognize. ~ Kalki·· 15:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
It is not "bigotry" to oppose the eating of dogs. I've been a vegetarian for 7 years now (and I'm not that old), so I actually object to the eating of any animal corpses, in general. Which other quote are you objecting to, exactly? If you look at the book's page history, you will see that I've been adding such quotes from way back, and not only "since [I] have returned to activity". In any case, thanks for your greetings, much appreciated. ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
For starters, after the polite greeting I gave you after your first edit since last month, was responded to with the extremely insulting posting clearly meant to arouse and incite bigotry against Muslims, and Obama, on my talk page, with a quote which I expanded for context, in my response to it, also renaming the section "The future must not belong to slanderers." This has been followed by what has become a rather strongly evident focus on posting all manner of quotes of those who insist Islam is innately evil, which of course it is your legitimate right to do, if that is your inclination, and those you quote have their right to speak what they wish — and I have the right to call such things bigoted and extremist reactions to the bigoted extremists who might think of themselves as "good muslims" but whose actions are an insult not only to all of Islam but to all of Humanity, as are any bigoted oppressions or assaults upon human beings. As you have done with others in the past, a feigned ignorance as to "whatever I could possibly be talking about", and making it seem the observation is simply of something illusory as the examples you provide to cite your innocence of any such intentions. I am not greatly disturbed by anything which is true and generally beneficial to humanity, but do get irritated and angry at those things which foster detrimental hatreds of human beings, of ANY traditions which are not innately and entirely brutal as any absolute endorsements of bigotry are. Being an absurdist universalist mystic, I do recognize that MOST people, MOST of the time, actually are better than the doctrines they often idolize, as they focus on the best within these — it is always tragic and repellent to the wise when they focus on the worst things in themselves and in others and PROJECT many assumptions of that vileness out onto others. I see that you have begun to make a few more general edits now, and certainly welcome such activity. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 17:19, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
The above section was then removed from his talk page with the comment: "let's keep your slanderous accusations all in the same place – your talk page, section "The future must not belong to slanderers." (ironically named)"
I see that in removing my comments, stating quite clearly the TRUTH of a few matters, and of my opinions, you behave in a way quite typically of many of the small minded and belligerent, in seeking to censor the truth that does not flatter your dishonest statements and distortions. It is your right to remove this statement of honest opinion from your talk page as well — but it does show your level of cowardice in not being able to accept truth that is not flattering to YOU. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 17:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I will respond on your talk page, in the appropriate section. Feel free to re-post anything you want there. But do stop insulting me (even though, I confess, being called a "coward" by anonymous users is always slightly amusing). ~ DanielTom (talk) 17:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
You continue to seek to incite anger, and I too am amused by the cowardly ways that people caught in various forms of dishonesty seek to change the subjects ENTIRELY, but you in your irrationality and intent to insult me, call me "cowardly" because I use a pseudonym here, as is my right, and is EVERYONE's right who does not abuse the privileges which are provided by the Wikimedia projects. To call me "cowardly" for exercising a right to PRUDENT anonymity in relation to MOST people on the internet, which is properly available to ALL of us here, is something you perhaps would have me deliberately remove — which would be of clear BENEFIT to those fanatics who don't like such truths as I am willing to speak. I have and I SHALL speak very boldly against ALL forms of bigotry — NOT merely the bigotry of some against some factions of humanity I might honestly and fairly favor, but even against my adversaries and those who would wish to do me various forms of harm — and NOT merely here, and at other sites where I have retained OTHER pseudonymous identities, as is my RIGHT to do. It is ALSO my right and perhaps my DUTY to elsewhere in times and places of MY choosing OR of MY decisions to INTERVENE to confront various forms of injustice, FACE to FACE with bigots and aggressors of various kinds, to and openly and publicly oppose their bigotry, with whatever means are REQUIRED, as I actually HAVE DONE in the past, and expect to be doing again in coming months; and if I survive the belligerence CHARACTERISTIC of many forms of bigotries I intend to face, throughout many of the coming years.
Thus to call me a "coward" because I do not let you or others know "all about me" and my personal identity makes me laugh at the SHALLOWNESS of your thought and aims, and your lack of sensibilities in accomplishing those of lasting merit. In my statement here have just revealed SOME assertions of what I have EXPERIENCED, and what I intend to do in coming months and years, and to the extent you learn of these, and still have any inclination to call me "cowardly", I do pity you, as to do so in the full extent of what shall be revealed would require that you have become either literally an imbecile, or a blatant liar, or both.
I do NOT demand others be so bold as I, nor so discrete as I, in regard to ANY thing, but I will be adamantly honest, adamantly secretive, and adamantly indifferent to the IDIOCY and arrogance of those who think I or ANY person should have their honesty or discretion be something entirely limited to THEIR terms of what it should be.
Those who would actually demand of ANY or ALL people such behavior as THEY might feel comfortable with, but others do not, ARE to that extent oppressors, and it shows the degree of their own pettiness of mind to attempt to denigrating people for their LEGITIMATE rights to SPEAK as they wish, as OPENLY as they wish, or as DISCRETELY and as safe from zealous bigots as they wish, when that right to be PRUDENT is deemed cowardice, and their right to vilify all who can be associated with those actually guilty of crimes — or even merely unpopular, and to censor and silent their objections or defenses is deemed "courage". In this world, at this time, MANY Bigotries are rampant and oppressors motivated by their hatred or callous disdain of the proper rights of others can exist as individual operatives, or those of collective means of oppression, as many people are well aware.
Unlike some, who I believe are relatively imprudent in many ways, I certainly assert and encourage the RIGHT of people to MAINTAIN many forms of PRIVACY and where they CAN to attain and use pseudonymous identities on the internet, especially when there are dangers from all forms of predators and frauds who could misuse personal information, or cowardly and vicious fanatics espousing all manner of bigotries who would be eager to assault or silence those who declare truths that EXPOSE the lies, delusions and deliberate distortions of truth they regularly make.
I have been inspired that there remain so many people who can make very lucid responses to acts of bigotry, rather than descending into it themselves, as J. K. Rowling did in her courageous responses to bigotry, outlined in "JK Rowling attacks Murdoch for tweet blaming all Muslims for Charlie Hebdo deaths" in The Guardian (11 January 2015), and the broad declarations of hundreds of thousands indicated in "The Paris unity march shows we must protect freedom of expression, not curtail it further" by Julie Posetti in The Guardian (12 January 2015), where the author declared:
I was just one Australian face in a human sea of more than one and half million Parisians yesterday. I was trying to comprehend what I was a part of when the placard thrust in front of my eyes made it clear: “La liberte d’expression n’a pas de religion” – freedom of expression has no religion. This was a rally to defend the essential global human right to free expression. A right that should not be bound by religious, cultural or political strictures.
We were marching to remember the victims of the Charlie Hebdo newsroom massacre and the Kosher grocery store siege. We were marching in sympathy with those in mourning who joined us. We were marching in defiance, determined to rise above the fear and chaos the terrorists inflicted on our city. But, overwhelmingly, we marched to defend our right to freely express our views.
But again, as you did the other day, what I perceive to be your noticeable support of bigotries, has prompted me to consume MUCH of the time I had intended to use adding new material on the POSITIVE and GOOD aspects of Humanity such as those exhibited by the great and wise Quaker Rufus Jones, whose page I finally got around to creating today. I seek to add MORE pages on Quakers and other mystics of MANY traditions in the coming year, and I also have no intentions of even seeming to approve ANY form malicious or callous distortions of truth, such as is OFTEN used to improperly justify or excuse the oppressions of MANY people, even many of the most innocent, the most heroic and the most saintly, through means of quite FALSE association of some attributes of nihilists and authoritarians and all manner of absolutist bigots, with other attributes which MANY of the most innocent and even most Saintly of people can also have.
I will probably do a few more things here, but expect to be leaving soon, and I do recognize that you, and MOST people, MOST of the time, whatever the cultures they belong to, or support, do generally mean well. I believe ALL of Life would go along better IF people could rise above the bigotries by which they seek to justify their will to scorn, their will to hate, and their will to punish others — or themselves, with needless oppressions. So it goes... Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 19:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
Just a correction: you called me a coward; I merely pointed out how amusing that was coming from an anonymous user. Of course you have the right to be anonymous, and I can assure you from personal experience that that is a very wise choice (namely to avoid defamation and violent threats). Peace ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:11, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I did indeed state "it does show your level of cowardice" to have removed my quite lucid and honest responses on our matters of dispute. I actually prefer to avoid using terms like "coward" or "villain" to refer to specific people, but sometimes in recent years have done so, to break through some forms of indifference to milder declarations. I think we can both agree that people should have the right to declare honest criticism of others, and that people should not be coerced into either silence or dishonesty, or even to honest speech upon matters, to those with clear intentions to be unjustly oppressive in various ways. I believe it would be better for all that people if more people focused MOSTLY on the best of humanity and the Universe, but I acknowledge and accept the right of anyone to honestly declare the worst which they can, of ANYTHING, but I don't believe that such things should be the primary, or even a major focus of most people. I believe that many forms of Peace and Serenity can and shall grow, with MANY forms of Awareness, Life and Love — and this shall occur all the more abundantly when people are more free of any prejudices against many creeds and ideas, and more free to choose. And I actually do recognize that there are many ignorant and confused people who would call themselves "good" members of MANY faiths, who would seek to reduce such rights. The good and bad of humanity is NOT usually easily or reliably demarcated by the LABELS they choose for each other or themselves. I believe we can both accept that assertion. ~ Kalki·· 22:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

resumption of commentary on the first postings which had been labeled "Quote of the Day"Edit

I had made a response in the above section, and DanielTom posted this just above that section, which would appear to falsify some of the statements subsequent to it, so I moved it here, to preserve more of the actual chronology of our dialogue.

The "Quote Of The Day" I posted above quite literally was the quote of the day, being widely quoted by the media, and several world-renowned newspapers, that same day, in the exact same context in which I presented it. Kalki's libelous response to it could just as well have been directed at others, notably conservative commentators, such as Matt Walsh and Michael Savage (pay close attention at how the latter started his show).

Kalki's abusive response is so full of distortions, vitriol, and anger, that is beneath responding to. Yet, one may ask why he had such a reaction, to the mere posting of a notable and pertinent quote. Bertrand Russell, I think, gives us the answer:

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic, because in arithmetic there is knowledge, but in theology there is only opinion. So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants." —B.R. An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish (1943)

It can not all be about Islam, nor the Islamization of Europe, which as I discussed with Kalki before is inevitable due to the decline in Western birth rates, and consequent need for mass immigration. It is, rather, more about Kalki's blind and irrational worship of President Obama, who (in Kalki's mind) cannot be criticized, or even quoted, lest his own words, by themselves, should indict him in the eyes of all reasonable people. In any case, if Kalki thinks he is being "abused and mocked and insulted" by the mere posting of a quote on his talk page (because it makes him feel cognitive dissonance), he should simply remove it—I certainly would not re-post it.

I could end here, but it does pain me to see someone go to his tomb in ignorance and delusion, so, as a friend, I will say a few more words. You see, like me, I expect Kalki has no plans to move to an Islamic country, preferring instead to continue to live in a free westernized nation. But, as he wants to feel good about himself, he can not allow himself to think straight, or even start to acknowledge the threat that Islam poses to jews, gays and apostates, so he is left with no alternative but to embrace the sort of mysticism that even children would be embarrassed to hold, descending so low as to quote approvingly "They that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind", thus suggesting in very poor taste that the recently-murdered cartoonists had what was coming to them. I suppose the Christians that are now being slaughtered in the Middle East and Africa also brought it on, right? Maybe the women and children buried alive by ISIS didn't pay enough attention to Kalki's rules of karma?

Kalki writes: "What words or excuses or justifications those driven by hatreds and fears of other human beings into acts of profound villainy, depravity, or cowardly support or promotion of such acts must be disregarded as rather incidental — it is ever their bigotry and evil which must be opposed". This gets it exactly, and perfectly, wrong. First of all, what to Kalki and me is "evil", could to Islam be "good". I'm sure the cartoonists' killers thought that what they were doing was good (and, according to Islam, it was – Muhammad approves of a man killing the mother of his kids for criticizing Muhammad). So Kalki is simply wrong – we do need to look at what drives people to terrorize and kill others, even if that ends up being contrary to what Kalki would like to believe, to feel good, namely, that all religions are equal and peaceful, when in fact they are not. I see Kalki continues his slanderous attacks against me, below, but I won't dignify them with a response. Peace to all. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Further comments…Edit

The above comment " I see Kalki continues his slanderous attacks against me, below, but I won't dignify them with a response. Peace to all." of course refers to comments ABOVE those, because other than the section of graphically enhanced postings about Obama's quote, I am trying to keep the sequence of dialogue between us as intact as possible, and as I stated earlier, I moved the above section. The rest of it is so complexly IRRATIONAL and INCOHERENT in regard to MANY aspects of the TRUTH as to deserve MUCH ridicule and CONTEMPT, which I do not have the time to fully provide it.

Once again I will even more bluntly note that to label any criticism and attempts at clear exposure of what I believe to be rather OBVIOUS DUPLICITY or the repetition if not the origination of slanders and deceits, to be an act of "slander", is either a somewhat a rather imaginative or very deluded use of the term, which I believe would be regarded as genuinely legitimate by only those of very low intelligence or rationality, or called that only by those of low moral integrity.

With what I discern to be rather obvious "distortions, vitriol, and anger", you state "Kalki's abusive response is so full of distortions, vitriol, and anger, that is beneath responding to" and then go on to respond to what I had previously stated, with a quote you seems to imply has relevance: "If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."

It is certainly NOT assertions of opinions contrary to my own which made actually made me angry — it is the clear and BLATANT DISHONESTY and HYPOCRITICAL DECEITFULNESS with which MANY assertions were being made ABOUT those of Obama, and ARE being made about his views and those of MOST muslims, that I consider not merely contemptible, but I believe ridiculously apparent to anyone of even average intelligence, who examines the full flow of the assertions which have been made. You then go on to emphasize a statement of Russell you would be wise to actually HEED: "whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants." Again I state, you accuse me of slander, prominently, and I believe the evidence clearly does NOT warrant that — I have stated what you have done, and MY OPINIONS of what have been done — and I have not attempted to STIFLE or DELETE any of your statements, as YOU actually HAVE chosen to stifle or delete some of mine — and if I was mistaken in believing that it was YOU who deliberately distorted and butchered Obama's statement of general opposition to ALL forms of religious bigotry and intolerance to make it SEEM a statement in favor or support of BRUTAL TERRORISM by casual readers, or those who actually AGREE with the bigotries of those you have quoted, then I can accept that I was mistaken in that regard. You state you merely presented what was widely quoted by "the media", and several "world-renowned newspapers" — without stating which they were, but whatever they might have been, I do not doubt that there are many ideologues and bigots running "world-renowned newspapers" and outlets of "the media" who have been obsessively defaming and denigrating Obama for years.

You go on to rather STUPIDLY accuse me of blind and irrational worship of President Obama — and that TRULY makes me laugh. I do actually admire the man, generally, but I worship NO man or woman, and just because I react with anger to seeing his HONORABLE statements being distorted in HORRIBLY misleading ways to make them SEEM dishonorable certainly does NOT make me a "worshipper" of him. I am NO abject worshipper of ANY man or woman, and I am NO RESPECTER of PERSONS or POSITION in regard to OPPOSING anyone's ERRORS, DISTORTIONS or LIES.

I worship REALITY and I live to HONOR truth — and I believe you are quite in need of far greater respect and awareness of BOTH.

You then go on to seek to belittle me personally and the broad Grace-affirming faiths of MANY diverse traditions with your quite obviously dull, INFANTILE assessment of what my beliefs, actually are saying that I "embrace the sort of mysticism that even children would be embarrassed to hold, descending so low as to quote approvingly "They that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind", thus suggesting in very poor taste that the recently-murdered cartoonists had what was coming to them. I suppose the Christians that are now being slaughtered in the Middle East and Africa also brought it on, right? Maybe the women and children buried alive by ISIS didn't pay enough attention to Kalki's rules of karma?"

You then ADD to that statement of vitriolic delusion with an ABYSMALLY STUPID assertion of your beliefs about what I believe: "contrary to what Kalki would like to believe, to feel good, namely, that all religions are equal and peaceful, when in fact they are not. That ANYONE who embraces wide universalist beliefs and sentiments believe "all religions are equal and peaceful" is a common and PATHETIC TROPE of those who seek to justify their bigotries against some particular faiths, or ALL other faiths. Muslim fanatics can use it just as much as atheist fanatics and fanatics of any other faiths, seeking to "justify" their EXCLUSIONS of others. I, like MANY other humanists and rationalists and mystics CAN and DO assert that ALL human beings and all human ideas have SOME good in them, and some forms of Truth can be determined from them — and that is a FAR CRY from the FOUL and outright IRRATIONAL ASSUMPTION and simple FALSEHOOD that I therefore believe "all religions are equal and peaceful." I firmly KNOW I have NEVER said anything so STUPID, so I advise you to stop being so STUPID as to repeatedly insist that I ever have or DO. As MANY bigots seem yet to unable to realize, the repetition of STUPID FALSEHOODS do not make them SO — it simply permits the most ignorant and confused of people to BELIEVE them so, and be comfortable believing such things — and I do realize that that is OFTEN all that many of the most manipulative are aiming at any way.

ONCE AGAIN you slip into EXTREME vitriolic delusion and common forms of BIGOTED DISTORTIONS of truth about those who advocate GENUINE Harmony with all who can be harmonized when you even IMPLY, let alone seem to adamantly INSIST that I believe or support justifications of the INSANE murders of ANYONE, and IMPLY that my adding of a QUOTE of of a QUAKER PACIFIST SOCIALIST, which HAD been selected as the ACTUAL quote of the day here PRIOR to this whole EPISODE of INSANITIES, and includes a quote of the CHRISTIAN BIBLE as something to be taken as an ENDORSEMENT of the MURDER of journalists by FANATICAL IDIOTS who might sincerely BELIEVE themselves servants of "the ONLY right forms of Islam", when they defame and disgrace the religion even MORE than the bigots who use their acts of assaults to justify the blanket condemnation of ALL muslims and all of the MANY forms of Islam.

You end saying "Peace to all" — except apparently ANY Muslims, who are not "enlightened" enough to abandon ALL their faiths and traditions, and realize that nearly any religion they could "convert" to would be superior and save them from the damnation of bigots who seem to believe Islam should be the chief object of contempt in the world, rather than a more sane and rational target of contempt, like ANY form of intolerant bigotry.

Finally, for your information, YOU do NOT know MUCH of my history, as I have NOT chosen to reveal much, and you certainly do NOT know my intentions, and you do not know many of my own EXPECTATIONS of what dangers and dooms I will eventually face, but I will assert that I firmly and confidently believe that MANY of your presumptuous accusations, assumptions and assertions will seem not merely ridiculously ignorant and simply WRONG, but truly CONTEMPTIBLE in the courses of Time, and the coming months and years. I hope you can recover from your humiliating disgraceful errors, and learn to be less belligerent towards those who CAN and DO fight against TYRANNY, TERRORISM, and ANY and ALL forms of UNJUST OPPRESSIONS. So it goes.… ~ Kalki·· 22:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

I am so DISGUSTED at the waste of my time responding extensively to what is plainly an incoherently anti-Islamic, anti-Humanist, anti-mystical rant of bigotries, that though I certainly do not wish to prevent you from completing whatever responses you wish to make, here, I would REQUEST that after this dialogue ends, you never again post ANY anti-Islamic or ANY form of anti-religious or ANTI-ANYONE compositions or statements to my page. I generally DO prefer to focus MOSTLY on the GOOD in humanity rather than the IDIOCIES, do NOT NEED many more reminders of that than those I actually WITNESS every day, and simply do NOT wish to ever again waste so much of my time addressing what I perceive to be vain repetitions of quite FALSE and MISLEADING absolutist statements, about the absolute worthlessness of others, or of some creed. In this matter, you have succeeded in being very MUCH of a time-consuming troll, and as I have stated, I have MUCH better things I would RATHER be doing, such as providing quotes of mystical, ethical and rational lore and ideas, from MANY diverse traditions, and advocates of MANY diverse beliefs and sciences — NONE of which I believe are absolutely "equal" to any other, though ALL are worthy of various forms of unique consideration, respect and criticism. ~ Kalki·· 22:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
You have GOT to be kidding me. YOU responded to a simple quote by Obama with a wall of text attacking ME personally for no reason, and didn't even wait for my response before starting attacking me AGAIN, wasting even more of MY time, and just now you posted yet ANOTHER wall of text, and have the nerve to complain about "waste of time". I TOLD you, you could simply revert anything you didn't like, instead of viciously attacking me just to feel good about yourself. And if you had just WAITED a few minutes, I would have been able to post my original response in the appropriate section (as promised) BEFORE your new tiresome sea of text with further countless distortions and wrongful accusations. Now you moved the text around so much that it looks like I never responded to your original "bigotry" charges, which makes this whole page absolutely ridiculous, really. I will say this for the last time: it is not "bigotry" to not want the countries of Europe to become Islamic—in fact, the opposite is true, for with Islam comes great problems, sometimes wars and mountains of bodies; get this through your thick skull: even if Islam were to dominate the West through demographics, peacefully, without civil war, at the very least we would have to see once again in Europe intolerance towards gays, subjugation of women, and obviously very great danger to Jews and apostates. So it is actually people like you, in the long run, who are the real bigots, only you're too stupid and shortsighted to realize it now. Many, many people died in European countries, not just in Portugal and Spain, to keep the continent unislamic, and free, but you would give that away just to feel good in the present (for however many decades you've got left), and screw everyone else in the future. No. F*ck you. ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:30, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
My "wall of text" is simply an extensive addressing of repetitions of either extremely irrational delusions or blatant lies, or combinations of BOTH. AGAIN you seem to have a VERY delicate sensibility — when to CRITICIZE your BLATANT repetitions of DISTORTING bigotries amounts to "attacking ME personally for no reason".
Also, I will point out that unlike MANY far less respectful of TRUTH, I do NOT simply ERASE from my mind or the easily accessible records anything I don’t like — I respond to MANY things with tolerance, but I respond to MANY distortions of TRUTH which I perceive with the CONTEMPT they DESERVE. You state that "Now you moved the text around so much that it looks like I never responded to your original "bigotry" charges, which makes this whole page absolutely ridiculous, really." You have only just begun responding to my assertions of those opinions TODAY, after further dialogue had occurred, so I placed them in the sequence of our dialogue — otherwise some of those things which I had noted would easily SEEM ridiculous, taken out of sequence. The mentions made of the above assertion can and are still as relevant or as irrelevant and incoherent posted in these sections as they would be in those above them. And you keep saying that for me to assert my sincere beliefs and opinions about general humanity and REJECT your characterizing of Islam as simply and innately EVIL, is done "just to feel good." You seem to be the one who seems to most NEED to assert things which have little or no rational cohesion or relevance "just to feel good." I am quite aware that to assert Truth sometimes is QUITE discomforting in MANY ways — especially to those who have long embraced many forms of FALSEHOODS. I actually DO have MANY criticisms I can and DO and AM willing make about those who CLAIM to be "Islamic" while practicing BARBARITIES or promoting bigotries, as I have of ANYONE of ANY faiths who do so, which is what I am doing that NOW — millions of muslims DO reject and oppose the fanatical intolerance of ISIS/ISIL and other terrorist AGGRESSORS, RAPISTS, ENSLAVERS, MURDERERS and other IMBECILES — and I myself INTEND to OPENLY say very HARSH things about these NIHILISTIC IDIOTS — that conceivably could get ME killed, and just MIGHT. You seem aggravated that I don’t accept your willingness to accept YOUR prejudices, presumptions and hostilities as FAIR AND BALANCED and only theirs as FOUL and BIGOTED. I say that there IS a plague of BRUTAL INTOLERANCE among MANY people, with MANY claiming Righteousness in their hatreds and oppression — and NOT just those who are or believe themselves Muslims. ~ Kalki·· 00:11, 13 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Comet Lovejoy!Edit

Comet - 2014 Q2 - Lovejoy.jpg
Cometa Lovejoy C2014 Q2.png
C2014Q2 Lovejoy by Paul Stewart.png

I do not usually give such notices to others, but I would recommend that all who can make some efforts to go out and SEEK and FIND Comet Lovejoy in coming days! It is a VERY fortuitous event, to be ABLE to see it NOW, and it should be visible to many for much of the rest of the month, especially if you have binoculars available, and as nights become darker as the moon wanes toward the new moon on the 20th, those of you in cities where lights obscure the sky might wish to go outside of them with binoculars around this time, if possible. There is a synchronicity of various EVENTS which have just recently occurred and are occurring even now, and which I expect to occur in coming days and months, not "caused" by that, and not "causing" it, in any physical ways at all, but which have generated MUCH Love and much JOY in my heart of hearts, and I can barely contain or stifle my joys much longer, and my faith and hope and charitable love of ALL! Absurdist Universalist Mystics and advocates of Humanist Unity within and beyond all sectarian or secular forms of faith are often prone to much sorrow at the ignorance and confusion of many people about many things, but that permits and impels them to take much joy in other things not discernble to most others, and SUCH are such things as ARE occurring NOW. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 08:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Firefly ホタル 蛍 Hotaru.jpg
You're still shimmering and leading me on…

Firefly that's what you are
Burning for me in my darkest hour
"Light breaks where no sun shines"
So shine for me tonight — firefly.

~ Greta Gaines & Dylan Thomas ~
~ Full song at YouTube · Live Performance ~

Fireflies, stars, comets and meteors all provide illuminating events in their own peculiar ways, and have often fascinated me since childhood. Of course with the naked eye or even with binoculars Lovejoy won't look as impressive as in some of the many photographs available, nor be as bright as some other comets which have been around in recent years, but still it is relatively easy to locate and see with binoculars. These are two of the better articles I have found on locating it and viewing it in the coming days:

update 2015·01·14Edit

I was out earlier in the night, star-gazing from a relatively remote and isolated hilltop very dear to me in the forests of Maine, which I hiked to on this very cold night, over snow and frozen creek beds, and up a steep hillside, simply because it is one of my favorite places to be, as a spot in which an odd set of circumstances occurred which clearly endangered my life, and definitely would have killed MOST people (though honestly, most people never would have gotten into such a dangerous situation as I let myself get into), but my life was saved by a VERY fortuitous and "coincidental" confluences of will and grace, karma and duty, and a quite important synchronicity of events, and I will remain somewhat mysterious and mystifying about it for a while, and for now simply say that had I not laughed out loud, heartily and long, at remembrances of certain dreams, and my own quite instant fears and hesitations in suddenly recalling them, by nearly all rational calculations which could be made related to the situation, I definitely would have died, MANY years ago. That is a good presentation of words in which to frame a very profound and paradoxical puzzle of events in my life which relatively few people as yet know about, but I do intend to publicly elaborate upon very extensively, along with many other things, some time by the early spring and summer of this year.

But moving my thoughts back from that digression to the reason I actually began typing:

Though Orion is often mentioned as a very familiar and easy to find constellation with which to locate the general regions of the heavens which Comet Lovejoy is in, as it moves slowly through them, currently the relatively bright star Aldebaran and the cluster of the Pleiades are far more convenient sky marks to help anyone do the final locating of it, as it currently forms a large triangle in the sky with those two other visible forms.

Most people who have clear weather and are outside of the ranges of such bright lighting as usually exists in and around cities should be able to see Lovejoy as a rather small dim light even with the naked eye, and with even small binoculars it shows up clearly as a fuzzy gray patch, which tonight was VERY close to 2 dim stars with which it formed a triangle which would be evident within the field of view of any binoculars or small telescope.

I know it is not all that impressive a sight, to those might hope for the bright green glow of some of the photos available, but I still believe it is notable enough to take some interest in, and hope that some people might be provided with an interesting curiosity before it leaves our regions of space, for another 8000 years or so. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 10:04, 14 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

update 2015·01·21Edit

With the new moon having just occurred, the skies are at their darkest of the month, and this was the clearest night I have had in my locale in many days, but even so, I would say the visibility of the comet is diminishing. It is relatively close to the Pleiades now, and Orion is quite some distance to the other side of them, relative to the comet. Unless something dramatic occurs, as is always conceivable with a comet, it is unlikely to remain relatively easy to find without professional equipment much longer. I will also note, in passing, that in this first month of the Gregorian calendar we are now entering, in the Chinese calendar, the final, 13th month of the long 384 day Wooden Horse "Leap Year" which began 31 January 2014 and ends 18 February 2015. ~ Kalki·· 05:13, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

General Apologies and Growing AwarenessEdit

In the past few minutes I just awoke from a much needed nap, having slept a very short while, but am well rested and must be leaving soon, but prior to sleeping I had realized a great many things with a clarity which I recognized I should comment upon soon, and as I awoke I was aware of several more very significant aspects of many things, and even in the past few minutes of contemplation of many things there have been more aspects of many things clarified in my mind which I hope to be able to note and help clarify to others in coming days and months, here, and elsewhere, and certainly do not have the time to fully clarify now.

ALL of my life, so far as I remember it (and I remember MUCH more of it than most might imagine likely or even possible, even from a VERY early age), I have held MUCH back from presentation to others, for MANY reasons, some of which I intend to SOON start explaining elsewhere, in the days and years ahead, in ways I could NOT easily do here, and some of which I hope to SOON begin to start explaining here, in the weeks and months ahead, which I believe will be helpful to others, in their understandings of many things, and of SOME of my perspectives on things. I am also usually quite interested in learning MANY of theirs, and that is one thing MANY people have usually found quite fascinating about me, that I am almost always EXTRAORDINARILY interested and alert to many things — often many things others CANNOT be anywhere near as alert to — and quite humorously, sometimes, quite ignorant or nearly oblivious to others which are very plain to some. Something of an "absent-minded genius" in many ways, and yet something of an intensely present and alert and imaginative genius in many others. I thought I would note some of this before preparing to leave, and hope to be back soon, as I know I have MANY things here and elsewhere to address — and limited time to do it. MAY ALL have a more JOYOUS and APPRECIATIVE TIME in coming days. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 19:49, 13 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Was VirgilEdit

I might disappoint you and others in actually saying so, but I am not actually a vegetarian… 
Like most human beings I quite naturally tend to be far less concerned about the destruction or consumption of the living substances of plants, or of microbes, than of the larger and more visibly active animals whose feelings we can more easily perceive and sympathize with in many ways.
A few months ago, a Fisher (usually referred to as a "fisher cat" here in Maine where I have usually lived in recent years), is what I probably heard kill my last pet, a stray cat which I had adopted many years ago. Though I did have sorrow at the fate of the cat, and do miss it, unlike some might, I do not have anger, hatred or resentment towards fisher-cats for being rather swift, callous and efficient predators (as are cats, though usually far more appealing ones, to most humans, including myself).

a vegetarian? ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I expect that he would long ago have been listed on the Wikipedia page if he were; a quick glance at that and a google search does not lead me to believe it likely. Though many of my favorite people of the past and present actually were or ARE vegetarians, being a vegetarian and a fan of Virgil, you are likely to be far more familiar with many details of both subjects than am I. I might disappoint you and others in actually saying so, but I am not actually a vegetarian, and do not intend to become one, though reducing meat consumption by myself or others is probably desirable in many ways. I had considered becoming a vegetarian when younger, but though for health and ecological reasons I can and do recommend that people generally eat a higher percentage of high protein vegetable foods such as nuts, beans and lentils (which I actually do love as a major part of my own diet), rather than meats, I have little revulsion towards meat, or other animal products, or the eating of them, though I do have revulsion at many aspects of the ways most animals tend to be treated in the current food industry, and do recommend the growth of more humane consideration of those animals people do generally choose to consume, and better protection of many species of land and sea from endangerment, as well as all animals from needless forms of abuse. I actually do agree with some of the more zealous activists on animal rights issues that many common food industry practices actually ARE abuses, and I don’t pretend to believe that these are likely to be eliminated any time soon, but I do believe measures should be taken to diminish them.
Unlike many whom I do actually admire, and sympathize with, I do not believe raising or harvesting animals for human consumption of meats or animal products is innately abusive of species, and technically can be advantageous for some species, in some ways, though of course it is usually somewhat harsh on the individual animals consumed or harvested, or otherwise used, and sometimes very much so — as it also can be for plants as well, though less overtly to our human senses and sensibilities. Personally, I am noted for caring for and saving plants as well as animals from harm or death to the extent I sometimes can, though like most human beings I quite naturally tend to be far less concerned about the destruction or consumption of the living substances of plants, or of microbes, than of the larger and more visibly active animals whose feelings we can more easily perceive and sympathize with in many ways. ~ Kalki·· 18:49, 14 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
The issue is that Virgil is in that Wikipedia "List of vegetarians". As an aside, I'm not actually a "fan" of Virgil, I only like his first six books of the Aeneid, but knowing how much other great poets have imitated and copied from him, using the flowers of his imagination to adorn their own poems, I do not doubt that the fault lies in me and my ignorance, and not in the Roman poet. (Incidentally, some of the best poets in the English language—Alexander Pope, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron—have [also?] been vegetarians—although of course I'm not suggesting cause and effect.)
I know of no better text expressing "revulsion towards meat" than Plutarch's De Esu Carnium—and I would recommend that you read it if I knew of any good English translation (I think the original is in Greek, I read it in Portuguese many years ago). But I personally am just like you—my favorite meal used to be the McChicken menu, and I ate meat at almost all meals, and loved its flavor. Believe it or not, when I eventually decided I should become vegan I lost close to 10 Kg (20 pounds) in just two weeks, and had to go to the doctor (I was already thin as a meat-eater). I hate veggies. The right reason to be a vegetarian, I think, is the avoidance of unnecessary suffering, although as you pointed out ecological (and the more selfish "health") concerns also often play a part. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:11, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Fishers are notorious for their very swift and effective attacks on their prey — including cats.
I am a skilled at using many weapons, as well as an EXTRAORDINARY shot with a pistol — FAR better than anyone who has ever contested with me.

I know that some of my stances on some issues can puzzle others, for various reasons, and to help clarify some things, since I am now increasingly more inclined to actually indicate many things about myself to others than I have been in many years, I will give some indications on some of my perspectives on human and humane or inhumane interactions with other animals, and a few of the details of how they developed in my life.

Though for most of my life I have usually had some form of "pet", or quite often several, I do not presently have any, nor do I wish any, for I expect I will likely now and henceforth be far too busy to properly care for one, for at least some months, or perhaps years. The most recent one, a stray cat I had adopted and had fed and cared for for many years, itself fell prey very suddenly one night, months ago, to what I believe was probably a very swift Fisher cat attack in the woods just outside my home, which I happened to hear but not actually see, in which there was only a very brief scuffle and fighting of a few seconds at most, before the very sudden silencing of my cat's muffled growl, as his neck was probably broken by the fisher's teeth. I was not actually sure what had happened, but by the sounds of things surmised that the cat had probably been killed. It never returned home, and in the months after that it seems at least one neighbor has lost a cat to what was probably a similar attack.

I have had many pets in my life, and I do accept that I myself, and most pets I have had in the past, which have included cats, dogs, birds and some species far less usually domesticated than these, are carnivores or omnivores and have MUCH preferred or even required meat or prey of various sorts. Though I actually do NOT like to hunt, and have not done so in years, I believe that I am far less "squeamish" about some things than even many hunters, though I certainly do not wish to harm or kill any animals needlessly. When I did hunt, MANY years ago, I was considered extraordinarily skillful at it by long experienced hunters, excellent at tracking, moving silently and slowly through the woods and positioning myself well on animal trails for the ambushing of prey. My father, considered by many others the best hunter and best rifle-shot of the many people he had hunted with, considered me the best hunter he had ever hunted with.

I am a skilled at using many weapons, as well as an EXTRAORDINARY shot with a pistol — FAR better than anyone who has ever contested with me. Though I am sure there are better shots in the world than I, in my adulthood I have NEVER lost a pistol shooting contest with others, and most have been astonished at the accuracy with which I have succeeded in placing a tight pattern of shots into targets they had a much larger scatter of shots into. On one significant occasion I hit with every shot I fired a target which others could not even hit at all with ANY of theirs, despite being rather good shots, generally, compared to most others.

Though I did do some hunting when I was MUCH younger, mostly to please my father, I do NOT actually enjoy harming ANY living thing needlessly, and have not hunted at all in MANY years. It was quite disappointing to my father when I abandoned hunting with him, and decided to tell him that though I certainly could and would do it if I ever actually needed to, I was actually not interested in doing it for "sport". He is still alive, but though one of my brothers continued to hunt with him for many years, he has now become too limited by his age and his health and I don’t believe he has himself actively hunted in many years now. I don’t actually know when he stopped doing so, but it has been at least a few years.

There are some experiences I did have while hunting that were very notable for many reasons, but I have many other things to attend to in coming days, and am not likely to reveal these for some months yet, and will probably do it elsewhere when I do, though I might by then have revealed here at least one other site I have either regularly or sporadically worked on, where I am more likely to indicate my experiences in some ways. ~ Kalki·· 19:49, 14 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

One of the very FEW "hunting" feats of which I am actually somewhat "proud" involved a doomed deer badly wounded by a hunter in another hunting party a day or two before my killing of it, which MANY other hunters had been attempting to track down through a very dense marshland thicket, and had failed to catch or find. It surely would have had, at most, only another very painful day or two of life, when my shots put an end to its torments.
I don't wish to give the impression that I actually did MUCH hunting, or that my hunting career was all that long, despite note which was made by others of my skillfulness at various things. Of "big game" animals I have only shot 2 deer — the first was VERY notable for many reasons which I will eventually reveal, but not so much in regard to a "hunting" event which was not all that impressive a feat in itself, in terms of being a relatively "lucky and/or unlucky" encounter between myself and the surprised deer, which did not actually involve all that many "hunting" skills on my part, nor any lack of evasive skill of the deer — it actually showed good skill at that, in eluding another hunter who had passed it by. It is memorable more for some observations I have to make regarding my general antipathy towards hunting or harming things, and how the event came about, and details of my impressions prior to it, and during it, and afterwards. The second was actually one of the very FEW "kills" of anything which I am actually somewhat "proud" of, because it involved tracking down a very clearly doomed deer, on the last day of a hunting season, which had been wounded a day or two before, with a severe "belly wound" by someone in an entirely different "hunting party" than our own, which ALL the other hunters who had attempted tracking it down had given up on finding, and ending a life which surely would not have lasted much longer, despite the ability of the deer to have skillfully eluded many other hunters in a VERY thick section of marshland woods (mostly mixed hemlock, pines and brushwoods) over a couple of days of intense pursuits and tracking by other hunters. That was the one feat of my hunting skills which most impressed my father, for even he had given up on finding it, convinced that it must have somehow slipped away elsewhere, when I actually had been able to very knowledgeably and skillfully follow a very criss-crossed trail through the swamps and thickets right up to where I quickly ended the deer's very painful last couple days of life, which surely would not have lasted much longer. ~ Kalki·· 03:58, 15 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

On trolls and other twerps… and Thanks to all who fight against them...Edit

In recent weeks our site and other wikimedia projects have clearly been afflicted by at least one rather obsessive vandal, who apparently, after a long hiatus, has recently resumed operations here. My own surmisal, based on the intensity of the obsession, after such a long apparent absence was that this person had probably been in prison, and unable to afflict us for a long time. I of course do not KNOW this, but it seemed a reasonable assessment based on the limited facts available, beyond the fact that such people are pathetic nuisances. Whether it is correct or not, in a literal sense, it is clearly indicative of this person's fate emotionally, because he clearly remains in such a small cramped prison of his own compulsive need to afflict the lives of others with insults and derision, that I have no doubt this person is far more miserable than most of us could easily be made by such a pathetic twerp's actions. It still remains a frustrating and time-consuming tedium for us to clean up the ugly messes that such people make, to the various extents we can, and I would like to THANK everyone who has been engaged in doing this, in recent weeks, and continues to do it. We do have a worthy project that continues to develop in many ways here, and those who seek to deliberately afflict it, or any of us, clearly have very pathetic lives, being so obsessed with waisting so much of their own time afflicting the lives of others. Many of us proceed to grow more appreciative of the Awareness, Life and Love which is the greatest beauty of ALL, and those who afflict us clearly remain ignorant and confused as they continue their decline to even worse forms of confusion. May we abide in the hope that they eventually come to a greater sense of genuine appreciation of the beauty of life, and can actually sorrow that they have wasted so much of their own and that of other people's in pathetic pursuits of VERY petty and pathetic aims. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 16:19, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

As this vandal is overtly repudiating my surmisal, I will acknowledge once again that it is only that. I have little KNOWLEDGE of the circumstances of his conditions, beyond that he exhibits a regular will to afflict others, and that there was long far less affliction here than in recent weeks, by what is obviously this single person, using various IPs and usernames. ~ Kalki·· 17:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

wordingEdit

I don't like the wording here, but can't think of anything better. Can you? ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:21, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Either way seems acceptable to me. ~ Kalki·· 15:22, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Is this okay? ~ DanielTom (talk) 17:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
I usually now use the "main" template myself for ease and uniformity, but sometimes prefer to resort to the older more adaptable form of making such links to other pages manually; and usually provide from about 2 to 4 "sample quotes." Some of the pages which much have more than that should probably be trimmed a bit. ~ Kalki·· 17:22, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Is it worth it to identify the speaker? ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
It probably is not necessary, but I have no objections to such information, and used to provide it regularly. I haven't had as much time to create pages lately — and right now, I just am checking in after being busy doing other things, and noticed your query, but once again, must be leaving soon. ~ Kalki·· 20:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
I was following this suggestion, but I fear such information is, at best, a bit distracting... So, should I remove the names? (At least when they are not so important? It's often obvious who the speaker is...) ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:22, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't find such basic info in the comment line all that distracting, and can often clarify things considerably in some passages; I believe it probably is generally preferable to have them, but not actually necessary; and that thus, where it develops, it should probably be retained, though where it doesn't it probably shouldn't be a high priority to add it. ~ Kalki·· 21:04, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy Martin Luther King Jr. DayEdit

Wasn't Martin Luther King Jr. a plagiarist? Even putting aside his connections to the Communist party, doesn't the fact that he was an adulterer make people at least question the appropriateness of such a holiday? ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:30, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I actually considered several profoundly revelatory responses to this bit of trolling, but was so busy with so many other things I decided to basically let it rest as the clearly disgraceful trolling it is. You are sometimes becoming almost as much a nuisance in some ways as the troll who posted the message below this one. I am running a bit late for something now, but will probably be back soon, before probably going off on another excursion, later. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 12:09, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Jesus said, "let him who is without sin cast the first stone", but then did not cast the stone himself, thus admitting that even he was not without sin (of course this story was made up, coming from John, and is not even in the original Gospel manuscripts). Martin Luther King Jr. was a great man—and he had, like most other men, great flaws. Didn't you say you "worship NO man"? ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:09, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Worship is a word used and misused by many in various ways, as are MANY words. I am familiar with many ranges of meaning which can be referred to by it, ranging from some forms of proper respect of individuals to abject deference to various notions or assertions of individuals, or groups of them, allied in political or religious factions. I repeat the FACT that I do NOT abjectly worship any man or woman, nor ANY groups of them, NOR any WORDS, nor ANY idols that can be made of the APPEARANCES of any of these entities within Reality. Yet I very much RESPECT every HUMAN being AS a human being and RECOGNIZE that MOST human beings CAN be aware and appreciative of MANY aspects of Ultimate Reality and the SIGNS which OCCUR within it in unique, familiarly popular, unpopular, and nearly universal ways which should be honored by the wise. I have long believed that the wisest of people are VERY respectful of the FACT that everyone can be ignorant and confused about MANY things, and strive to do what they can to help diminish the extremely detrimental forms of ignorance and confusion, rather than INCREASE them, which is OFTEN the case with those most PRONE to emphasize the WORST aspects of what they KNOW or believe about others, and DISREGARD, DISRESPECT or DISMISS that which is BEST about them, or casually or very deliberately speak in such ways as ENCOURAGE others to do so.
You seem to make a somewhat unwarranted inferences in the anecdote you cite. When I was but a very young child I perceived it as a remarkable example of a single person of great courage and wisdom standing up against unjust and excessive laws of punishments, which were presumed absolutely holy and proper and mandatory, in defense of Humanity and Mercy. He implicitly derides the will and aims of those who are sinful in their desire to punish or impel others to punish in accord with the religious and civil statutory laws of the era into which he was born to "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" and then, when no one is so bold as to make such an assertion of himself, he who clearly least exhibited any traces of the sin of scornfulness and the WILL to PUNISH, or fear of the scornfulness of MOST, exhibits no will to do such a deed. This was an extremely wise and courageous act.
The wisest of people certainly have no desire or intention of casting any stones at others, or doing ANY form of HARM needlessly, even if the shallow and absolutist interpretations of literalists and legalists are prone to INSIST upon it, to the extent they CAN, and often severely MISINTERPRET the lack of desire of the most charitable to NOT do so. Even as a very young child I could perceive that.
I assert that there are MANY generally GOOD traditions available to MANY, and NO traditions that are absolutely definable or describable that are ABSOLUTELY best for ALL people, but I do also believe that MANY which are generally GOOD for MOST people can be recognized as such by those not severely demented or depraved, and ALL of the BEST include some form of progress towards, or devotions to Justice, Unity, Liberty and Joyous Universal Love, by whatever NAMES or NOTIONS people can PERCEIVE some of the most beautiful aspects of these.
I am actually a bit tired now, and will probably need to rest soon, having been more busy on various things earlier in the day than I expected to be, and unable to take care of some things I had wished to get done. There are MANY aspects of things I believe you do not discern very clearly, but I certainly have more things to do than attempt to fully elucidate many of them any time soon, and seem a bit too weary to attempt to do much more right now. There are a few more things I will attempt to do here, and then I will probably sleep for a while. ~ Kalki·· 23:58, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

troll droppings and a brief responseEdit

seriously. I was not in prison, idiot. Time-wasting idiots and troll impersonators r dead 2 me —This unsigned comment is by DoggoneBurd740149‎ (talkcontribs) . (a pathetically habitual troll-vandal, currently using that now permanently blocked name).

Seriously. I will respond to this current infantile trolling with a brief response. I certainly can believe that it is not the case that you were in prison, physically, and would NOT insist others believe it probable, as I actually have done, but I do not doubt your psychological problems are in clear need of medical attention, and might warrant some form of incarceration for the safety of others. I was just about to leave when I checked in and noticed this note and the current spate of infantile vandalism you have indulged in. Perhaps it is unfortunate you are not in prison now, and I do not doubt some might wish you were. I actually do have to be leaving now, once again, and hope that you gradually get over yourself and out of many of your quite apparent delusions that you are impressive as anything but a rather pathetically infantile person, as yet. There are many forms of hope for everyone — but not any great hope for any great happiness for anyone who continues to behave as you have been doing, lately. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 12:00, 21 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Help with vandalEdit

Hello there. This article has been vandalized several times recently. I'd like your help in reverting the vandalized portions of it. I've reverted some of it as best as I can, but the vandal seems to have done some extensive damage. Regards, Illegitimate Barrister 04:47, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

As I noted on your talk page, I had to leave earlier, but now am back — but I am still busy with a few other things, as I was before I left, and probably won't be able to give this site my constant attention immediately. I will probably do a few things here within an hour or so, but then might not have time for much more than that. ~ Kalki·· 07:17, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Your comments at your RfAEdit

Kalki, I respect your honesty and forthrightness; they are of high value in some contexts. In others, it's way too much. Social reality. Your extensive responses in your RfA look worse than anything anyone is throwing at you. This has nothing to do with whether or not you were right.

There are only two serious negatives at this point, and had you not responded at all, you would not have been harmed. Consider that, please. Maybe hat (collapse) your responses if you can. (You can't properly remove a response that someone has responded to, but you can shove it down from in-your-face visibility. You could strike and remove bolding and/or hat.)

Been there, done that.

I did ask you a question at the bottom of the Oppose section. A good answer would be "Yes" or "No." A long explanation, not a great idea in that context. I set up a ball for you to hit, if you like. You can knock it out of the park with a couple of words. And I do expect you to answer with complete sincerity. --Abd (talk) 01:45, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Kalki, you did respond to my question, but not succinctly, and your response, to me, appears evasive. I was disappointed. You haven't learned. There is a similarity in your position with that of JWSchmidt on Wikiversity. He was one of the founders, but when things went south, and he was desysopped and blocked, he never recovered. He turned every occasion into a tirade, with copious links as proof, and very difficult to read. I understand it. It is a dysfunctional response to rejection. One wants to explain, to prove that one was right. And the very effort demolishes communication. One can go on for years, living in that rejection, and believing in one's rightness. However "right" and "wrong" are illusions, inventions, fantasies. What's real?
There is a function of language, apparently, that you have missed. The most powerful usage of language is in creation of the future. It is not merely a pile of associations and interpretations. It is not "honest," in this function, i.e., as a full and complete representation of present reality. "I will..." or "I will not ..." is not a fact, ever. How could it be? It can be honest in another way, as an expression or declaration of intention.
I'm reviewing the history of this affair. Your extensive responses are discouraging me from speaking up. They can and will attract negative response. You are facing a rather vicious example of the assertion of a position that is less viciously asserted by many others, and you set it up.
Had you remained silent, or with minimal and non-combative response, I'd be confident that your RfA would have been approved. As it is, it might still be approved. And then if you don't show development in certain areas, you could lose the bit all over again. To be an admin is to be a constant target. It's essential to develop detachment. You are eminently trollable, a user pushes your buttons and you explode with a torrent of words that he then points to with "See what I mean?" I'm sure it worked in the past.
It's not that you are wrong. It's that you are presenting your thinking, knee-jerk, in a context not designed for that.
Okay, I could go over your response in detail, explaining how it was a setup for the response, and then for a few heads or more to nod, and how it completely ignored the advice I gave above. But that's quite a bit of work, and I'm not going to waste the time if you don't want it. Your choice, let me know. --Abd (talk) 20:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I do appreciate your comments, and believe we both could learn much from each other, eventually, but I believe my addressing of the situation was fair, and I actually do not know how you consider it evasive. It was to a certain extent digressive, but that was because there were actually MANY comments that had been posted to the page in my absence that I believed it was appropriate to make some response to. I believe some of the things you have sometimes pointed out have "missed the mark" somewhat also, but I realize mine sometimes do as well. I truly hope we can have more extensive dialogue in the future, here and elsewhere. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 20:55, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm going to take that as a weak "Yes" to the question about going over your response.
The question asked was one that could have been answered Yes or No. I'm not convinced that you have understood the issue. There had been a :Weak Oppose - Is a great editor but as i have seen many times when i come here to fix vandalism, he has a bad habit of intimidating vandals by taunting them. Admins should hold a higher standard and taunting trolls and calling them names is a very low one.
It may be possible to turn this oppose to support, if you show that you understand the objection to your behavior. Do you understand why it's considered a problem to taunt or call vandals and trolls names?
I asked you about your future intentions. I did not accuse you of anything. Now, the user has an experience. Denying the user's experience is not good communication practice. "Bad habit" is a "story." However the user did see something. You actually acknowledge what the user said, but then excuse it, and the way I read that is that you were justifying it by your years of experience dealing with vandals. When an admin becomes unable to maintain civility, out of that kind of frustration, they have burned out. The vandal who shows up today is not the same person who showed up all those other times.
Worse, if you taunt or insult the person, it increases their motivation to repeat the behavior. I was hoping that you would understand all this and just say something like:
Yes, I've been frustrated at times. I will be careful about that for the future.
And you'd be done with it. Instead:
  • You were patronizing toward the user. Look at CentralAuth, this is a user who has obviously done a fair amount of cross-wiki antivandalism patrol.[1] The user has over 21,000 edits on Commons, is rollbacker on en.wiki, which usually means a user who does vandalism patrol there. The user is a sysop on meta. I saw privileges in excess of what I'd expect for edit count, so I looked, and, yes.[2] The user has been highly privileged in the past.
  • Then you appealed to mob opinion that vandals are "pathetic." In fact, some vandals are precocious children, not pathetic at all. There is one, I'm sure you know him, who was "vandalizing" at seven years old. I realized what was going on and made a space for him on Wikversity, which is, after all, for "learning by doing." It stopped the vandalism. He's still quite young, and developing. Many vandals are simply adolescents who are doing what adolescents do. Calling them "pathetic" will have no effect at all, though it might give you some satisfaction. w:WP:RBI, you know it. So get it!
  • Then you made the claim that you would be less likely to be insulting if you were an administrator. While that's possible, it's not likely an argument that will impress.
  • You use all caps and many boldings. Visually, these create forbidding walls of text for readers. Occasional usage may be effective, but the real problem is the length.
  • You wander. These are musings, not responses to a question or clear response to a condition.
  • And then, as part of this same response, you went into the issue of the "single person." Remember, this is all indented as a reponse to Stemoc and me.
  • And then you go into your whole friggin' wiki history.
Hence, I have a suggestion, you can take it or leave it. Collapse that entire section. I made an off-topic musing, and "archived it to history"? Have you noticed that? Because Cirt has responded, you cannot just delete your response. If you are like me, you hate to delete what you wrote, but personally, I'm fine with it being filed differently. Archive it to history with a link. See how I did it: I place a section header, save it, then delete that whole section, then the link can pull up the specific comment.
Then apologize for going off on a tangent. Answer the question: will you continue to taunt vandals or not? If Yes, well, say so. But I think you can say No to that. Stop trying to explain everything. It will never happen, you will never succeed in explaining yourself unless people really want to know and ask you, and even then it's not easy.
Your replaced response can acknowledge the problem. I.e., "Yes, my response was inconsiderately long, I apologize, Cirt was right about that. I intend to pay more attention to brevity in the future."
Or am I suggesting something that is completely outside the bounds of possibility for you? Can you be focused in a particular context?
Okay, my own aside. I've registered on Quora. I do not restrain myself in commenting, I go on at length, using all my skills as a writer, and my extensive experience. In a few months, I have over 100,000 page views, many upvotes, and many users who have explicitly thanked me for transforming their understanding of a situation and connecting that with how their entire life works.
I'm actually trained to do that. My general opinion has been that it's very difficult to do with text (the training is in-person or sometimes voice is a good enough connection.) On wikis, it's horrible, typically.
It's quite a change from WMF wikis, where if you care enough to research and write deeply, it's tl;dr as if tl;dr was a bannable offense. It was, for me, on en.wikipedia. Even where what I wrote was absolutely necessary, and was successful, i.e., consensus was found, on my request. (In fact it usually was found, most of what I attempted was successful, including a desysopping. Cirt does not know yet what he touched by bringing that up). But then that request was used on a noticeboard as proof of "walls of text." Wikipedia. That's the way it is. I'm now much more careful. I still probably write too much.
So, I'd love to see you successful with the RfA. Will you consider just stopping, except for very brief and very necessary responses to questions? Could you just let Cirt display himself without having to be the one to point out that he is the way he is?
If you try it, you might discover something very useful, about yourself and about life and other people. Good luck. --Abd (talk) 22:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Stuff is happening. I highly recommend you be uncharacteristically silent. Under these conditions, taking a day or more to respond to anything is a standard wiki survival technique. We think we must respond immediately or ... or ... the sky will fall or something. --Abd (talk) 22:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I have noticed some of the things you are mentioning. I have been occupied with the TEDIOUS process of responding to an earlier request effectively which will take MUCH more time, to do so THOROUGHLY and a few other things other than those here, as well as a rather hasty selection for QOTD. I hope to respond to some of your assessments and assertions soon, but I am actually busy with a few other things than those here, and probably will soon be leaving things alone here, simply because I am too busy elsewhere. Thanks for some of your efforts on clarifying some issues, but I believe you realize that there is much people have preferred to obscure or deny, for various reasons, and there are sometimes many people willing to band together in doing so. I am too busy to study all of your statements, or all of those of others here, right now. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 00:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
Great. If you are too busy, good. How about this: don't respond unless you are asked to respond, specifically, and then conserve your time by being brief and trusting that if more is needed, you can respond later. Easy peasy. Meanwhile, everyone is too busy to read. Thanks for the blessings. --Abd (talk) 00:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I did finally get around to reading your advice. I believe I am tempering myself a bit more, and have always myself recognized the copious accusations should not always be responded to, but whatever comes of the current endeavors, I can abide in general good will to most people, and devotion to serving this project. There was actually a few more significant things I considered adding, but will keep my comment brief, and proceed to other things. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 15:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Kalki, I would ask you to listen to Abd, if I thought it would make any difference. But while I agree that you are falling into traps too easily, and repeatedly shooting yourself in the foot, some things are very unpredictable—like a "Strong oppose"(!) coming from a user with 4 edits, after you've restored an image, or a "weak oppose" from another (with 2 article edits) whom you've welcomed and treated well. It's ridiculous. That said, I'll take the opportunity to point out something I only noticed today: did you know that Aldous Huxley, C. S. Lewis and JFK all died in the same day (22 November 1963)? This reminds me of another magical year: 1776, date of the publication of The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, of the invention of the steam engine (that made the Industrial Revolution possible), and of the American Revolution. (Mickle's translation of the Lusiads, which I like very much, was also first published that year.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 03:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I am trying ratchet back the tone of things a bit, and perhaps diminish some of the contentions to more acceptable levels. It perhaps helps that I am feeling tired, and hope to finish up just a few other things, and perhaps do a few things here, before I probably drop off to sleep for a couple hours, and perhaps avoid getting too involved here for a while. ~ Kalki·· 03:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Your comment in RfA/Illegitimate BarristerEdit

[3], "The above vote, is of course that of the vandal running amok lately, and has little significance save to show how infantile a mentality this person has, for anyone to see." The comment about that user was entirely gratuitous, such votes are handled swiftly and easily without anything more than bare information (as was done). "Infantile mentality" was entirely gratuitous, w:WP:DNFTT. Please stop that. You do not need to acknowledge this, I don't want to waste your valuable time. --Abd (talk) 01:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I believe I probably CAN and WILL moderate my language a bit more in the future — but you do realize you are talking about a vandal who in his comments HABITUALLY threatens to RAPE and KILL people for interfering with his rampages, so despite the low credibility of such threats, obviously the assertion that I should have more concern for his delicate sensibilities is something I find somewhat ironic. ~ Kalki·· 02:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

relatively brief?Edit

[4]. Look, instead of letting go, instead of acknowledging that Cirt was "willing to agree" to stop participating in the RfA, you poked him some more, and at length, this was not brief as your edit summary stated. "Relatively brief," perhaps, compared to dropping a huge tome on someone. Kalki, this is not looking good. Stop! Remove that comment, quickly, before anyone responds to it! --Abd (talk) 01:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I was responding to a request that he made into a DEMAND, and then swiftly made into an ACCUSATION that I deserved to be BLOCKED for not IMMEDIATELY complying with his quite STILTED demands. I know I put more efforts to clarify many aspects of things with words in such ways as I can than might be flattering to me or others, but I can agree that the disputes between us are NOT such a thing as would be advantageous for either of us to become much more occupied with, and am willing to let many unresolved things go unresolved at this point, and actually will probably need to physically rest soon. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 02:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

of courseEdit

Do you read "of course" as "ove course" or "off course"? ~ DanielTom (talk) 14:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I believe most people would generally read it with the V. ~ Kalki·· 14:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Asking socks to self-discloseEdit

[This is not an accusation, of course. This is a copy of a notice placed by Cirt on user talk pages. He apparently overlooked you, probably because you had not "voted." I corrected the page link. If you choose, you may respond here, it is not necessary to respond on the page mentioned. Your response, if any, will be noted there.]

Billinghurst has asked DIFF that the third-party who is a Artículo bueno.svg Confirmed sock connected to accounts Jimmy11234 (talk · contributions) and Gene96 (talk · contributions) to self-disclose their involvement in the socking.

You are one of the accounts that voted before 12:09, 25 January 2015.

I ask that if you are behind the socking of Artículo bueno.svg Confirmed socks Jimmy11234 (talk · contributions) and Gene96 (talk · contributions) to self-disclose please at Wikiquote talk:Requests_for_adminship/Kalki_(4th_request)#Asking_socks_to_self-disclose.

(signed, Cirt)

This notice placed by --Abd (talk) 17:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

No, I definitely did not cast any vote in my own Requests for adminship, beyond my initial nomination of myself, as Kalki (talk · contributions). I have NOT USED alternate accounts on ANY Wikimedia project in YEARS. I do actually consider this procedure of mass-interrogation a somewhat insulting Witch hunt as one person who voted AGAINST me called it, and if it is the kind of thing that goes on regularly now in Wikimedia projects whenever there is any suspicion of ANYONE having done something improper, I believe I have a much clearer idea of the reasons people are being driven away from them in droves. MASS PARANOIA, promoted as the NORM. It truly is disgusting. ~ Kalki·· 17:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


Thank you for your response, Kalki. I believe you and, mirable Dieux, Cirt believes you. Your statement about not using alternate accounts on any Wikimedia project in years is enough, actually, it covers the matter. There is no harm in reconfirmation.
However, we have strong evidence that someone may have vote-stacked, or made comments in a process, or was otherwise disruptive, pretending to be more than one user. You were only pinged on this because everyone who commented was pinged. Nobody will be pilloried or burned at the stake over this, at least not by me or as supported by me. However, we need to move forward toward community and cooperation, and, as far as I'm concerned, this is an opportunity to acknowledge the past (even just yesterday) and move forward.
It's unfortunately that it got all mixed up with your RfA, but I did not cause that, nor did you. I have acted to minimize the damage, moving the sock discussion off the RfA page proper. I hope you can appreciate that.
At this point there is much more than mere suspicion. Whether or not this approach was optimal, I cannot be certain. But it had started and it was not unreasonable. That socking would be revealed was inevitable from the checkuser request, which nobody here opposed. So let's notice and build on the unanimity we have, instead of driving wedges into the cracks. Okay?--Abd (talk) 22:59, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I am back from an excursion, just a short while ago, and I am probably only going to do a few things here before making further preparations for a winter storm due to get nasty in a few hours where I live. I actually expect that it is more likely than not to knock out the power for a day or more where I am, and I will also be busy after it is over, so I might not have much time or ability to check in here beyond tonight. I have quite a few things to review before I respond to some of them, and other things to attend to as well. I hope to have done a bit of some of my routine work here, for a few days ahead, in case the power does go out, within a few hours, but I am busy with quite a few things, other than the internet. I am getting to work on a few things here and there, right now. ~ Kalki·· 23:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Olive branch from CirtEdit

Olive branch from Cirt

Kalki, I'd like to extend an Olive branch to you. :)

I've said I'll stop responding to you at your Request for Adminship.

I can respectfully defer to the community for their own further responses, as to the outcome there.

It looks like hopefully you've stayed away from socking for a bit of a while now -- and I'm quite proud of you for keeping to that over time.

However, I do feel bad for you that apparently someone else is socking there and that's unfortunate, so hopefully we'll get to the bottom of that.

If you become an admin again, I look forward to working with you together to improve the quality of Wikiquote.

Good luck,

-- Cirt (talk) 19:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Question about edit warring and IP editingEdit

It's unfortunate that this comes up at this time, but it has. On my talk page, a user complained about my involvement in this matter, etc., and then suggested I look at his/her history. So I did. What I saw may not be what s/he had in mind. However, it revealed a situation that should be addressed. I am raising this with you and the other editor, though the concerns are different. Nevertheless, both of you edit warred, minor or major.

This is on Ian Fleming (History). You reverted the other user twice. However, then, an IP immediately began reverting the user as well.

Your editing around this time:

  • Kalki contributions
  • At 18:23 you told the user why you were reverting him or her, on his talk page, saying that you had "are more likely than not an incarnation of the current troll-vandal," which you then hedged.
  • At 18:25, you reverted.
  • At 18:34, the IP began reverting, continuing 18:36, 18:43: 18:57, 19:11, 19:16.
  • At 18:49, you responded to the user in your RfA.
  • At 18:58, you again responded there, saying "I also have to laugh, because in the brief time it took me to type the above statements, you have gotten into an edit war with what might be the troll currently afflicting the site...
  • at 19:17, you made the content argument in your RfA.
  • at 19:51, Misczatomic soft-blocked the IP.

You must know what this could look like. I am not accusing you of being the IP, because, at this point, it would be useless, since I can see no way that you could have, say, accidentally logged out (which is what I first had thought possible). If it was you, it was willful, and you were deceptive about it. That does not seem like you.

I cannot ever completely rule these out, however, so I will ask you: would you mind if the IP were hard-blocked? Would you object to checkuser? Those are questions, not demands.

However, I'm concerned about something else. The user is new to Wikiquote. From global contributions, this is no ordinary troll. He or she may have, as you have noticed, some difficulty with civility and revert warring. I will be warning him or her about that. However, you saw an IP revert warring with a regular user, and the regular user was making what appears to be a good-faith removal of the image. Instead of assisting the new user, you effectively taunted him or her in your RfA response.

Can you see the problem? The IP took your position. I'm fully aware that could be a sophisticated troll. However, you allowed it to happen.

If this is as you suspected, we need to stop the behavior, and to do that, we need to be united. Have you considered that you could have reverted the IP and taken the question to the article talk page? This is much more what I'd expect an administrator to do.

You could have supported the user, and if you are an admin, or are training for the position, that's what I'd expect. If you disagree with the user, you would then initiate process to resolve the dispute, so that consensus resolves it, not Kalki.

I'm aware that, so far, you have not returned to the article. I'm planning on investigating what you have said. If it is accurate, I may restore that image myself. But first things first. Site process is crucial, particularly for administrators. Do you agree? --Abd (talk) 00:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)


I would hope that there are clear enough records of the events to permit the checkusers to substantiate it definitely was NOT me. I really don’t know what you are saying about me "allowing it to happen." I had been putting up with trolls and vandals relatively DEFENSELESSLY for a few years now, had been struggling off and on with the most recent bout of INTENSE vandalism for a few weeks, and especially around that time period, and a person I merely suspected MIGHT be the vandal had decided after 2 edits here that I was absolutely not fit to be an admin because I had an edit dispute with him and he somehow took my rather qualified expressions of suspicions as an unforgivable "insult." I have NO problem with ANYONE blocking that IP at all. I know it was NOT me. I did NOT concern myself with the matter much, because there were MANY other things I was trying to attend to, and there sure as hell wasn't a whole lot I could do about it anyway, was WEARY of putting up with vandals and other twerps, and I genuinely DID laugh when the over-reaction this user gave to my expressions of suspicions as something making me a disgrace to the human race became a ridiculously apt example of a rather VOID argument where HE or SHE made automatic ASSUMPTIONS and ACCUSATIONS as if that troll was CERTAINLY me, with what I believe was FAR LESS reason to assume that. I didn't even notice the circumstances until I typed up the note to that effect, where I noted my amusement at it, but I really was a bit tired of the whole LOAD of farces and hypocrisies I have been encountering. I really don’t remember precisely what else I was doing at that time, but I definitely remember being very tired and weary around then, and the circumstance really did strike me as a something of a bit of "comic relief" and perhaps "just deserts" to a rather tragic circumstance. I do not actually KNOW it was the particular troll that has been plaguing us regularly lately, but it certainly seemed his type of activity. What exactly was I supposed to do intervene, ask this troll to suddenly have respect for me or anyone else here and expect sincere contrition? I am going to get busy on a few things I want to get done before the power goes out where I am at. I am hoping it WON'T, but I am not counting on it, and I want to have the next few days of QOTD layouts done before it does, among various other things I am trying to also get done. ~ Kalki·· 01:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Relax, no emergency here. One step at a time.
I don't believe in "supposed to." There was this possibility, try it on for size. You restored the image, and presented an argument for keeping it. SchroCat reverted anyway. See this history to satisfy yourself that I know that side what happened. Then the IP started reverting SchroCat. You revert the IP, and go to Talk on the image issue. Or just revert with edit summary, "Please do not revert war," and come back to it when you have more time.
My guess is that SchroCat's jaw would have dropped. The IP troll, if that's what it was, would be frustrated, defeated, failing to cause a fight. Had you done this, you just might have turned a vote around. If not, it would have been far easier than all the words you spilled on your RfA.
If you are overwhelmed, some of it is because of work you make for yourself. Wiki process can be and should be easy, "quick." Right?
You were uncivil back to SchroCat. That is conduct unbecoming of an administrator. Please show that you can stop doing this. Okay?
I am suggesting an attitude shift that could make you a lot happier, much less stressed and "weary." --Abd (talk) 01:49, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I certainly hope to have further dialogue with you on attitudes of various kinds in the future, and many other things I believe to be of some merit for all of us. After having attended to a few things here and elsewhere, I have just arisen from a much needed sleep, and still have power, and have hoping that continues. I plan to do a few things here now, but continue to have many other things to attend to, of some urgency, and hope that my power and cable connections remain undamaged by quite a storm were having in the Northeast of the US. It is not unusual for me to lose power in winter storms where I live in Maine, so I've been lucky, thus far. I'm hoping that holds out — but if no one hears much from me for a day or two, that would probably be the reason why. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 12:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
No, Kalki, if we DEMAND your response, and you don't respond IMMEDIATELY, we will assume you don't care about the community and TAKE ACTION to sanction this IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR.
Seriously, I've seen almost exactly that, on Commons, recently, where there was no emergency at all. Just users who thought a bureaucrat had DONE WRONG, even though the situation was completely over and now moot, and who then waxed eloquent at how ARROGANT the fellow was, because he was busy for a few days.
I live in Massachusetts and went out and bought a show shovel, even though normally I don't need one, my landlord handles snow removal. But I wanted to be able to dig my car out if needed. Keep warm. Do please address the substance when you can get to it. --Abd (talk) 18:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Free willEdit

I thought perhaps you might be very busy right now, but then I thought, perhaps a distraction is entirely what is in order..... I have started an article to fill the surprising gap at free will, and thought to seek your advisement and inestimable aid on progressing. Blessings!! DeistCosmos (talk) 03:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the page. I have been busy with other things, and just getting back to do a few things here, before I probably will have to catch some sleep. I did some minor formatting tweaks to the page, and am familiar with quotes of various figures which I could probably add in coming days. I have a page I began working on yesterday I would like to finish up on and post my work on, but doing some QOTD work in case I lose power is probably my top priority here, until I get a good "safety cushion" of a few more days established. ~ Kalki·· 03:58, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
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