Talk:Martin Niemöller

Based on the research I've conducted into the early postwar (1945-50) publications of Niemoeller's speeches, we cannot speak of "a" definitive version of this quotation.

The only thing that consistently emerges is that he included the Communists, and said them first. The "incurables" (disabled), Jews, and Jehovah's Witnesses. In no published speech that I found did he mention Catholics, nor the Social Democrats, nor the trade unions. Thus I agree with most assertions made in the analysis by Franklin Littell, who knew Niemoeller personally.

To see my research, including transcriptions and translations of the original publications of Niemoeller's early postwar sermons, see:

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm

H. Marcuse, July 2004

Thank you for this information. I have posted the link on the article page as the first external link, as it seems to be the most informative that we have. Any further statements of Niemöller or others you would like to post here would be very welcome. Thanks again. ~ Kalki 04:06, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sick

"Dann hat man die Kranken, die sogenannten Unheilbaren beseitigt." Translated to... "Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables."

Everyone leaves out the "sick". The term "mentally ill" had not yet been invented in 1946, the word "incurables" is the term for such people back then.

As no one can see this part of the speech, the "mentally ill" continue to double in the population. The drugs used on the "incurables" make them worse, not better.

In U.S.A. the rates of mental illness...

In 2007, 1 in every 76 Americans had mental illness.

In 1987, 1 in every 184 Americans had mental illness.

In 1955, 1 out of 300 people had mental illness.

In 1903, 1 out of every 500 people were mentally ill or had a brain infection.

"Instead (of getting better), from 1987 until the present(2010), we saw an increase in the number of mentally disabled people from 3.3 million people to 5.7 million people in the United States." said Robert Whitaker.

2012 "About 11.4 million adult Americans suffered from severe mental illness" --Mark v1.0 (talk) 12:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

UPDATING 2022 . There is still a one in five statistic , same as the 2012 ABC news reference. Psychiatric pills have not cured anyone. The "incurables"(AKA mentally ill) ARE in the original poem and still no one wants to write them in.--Mark v1.0 (talk) 00:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Found on Wikipedia

"Then they got rid of the sick, the so-called incurables. I remember a conversation I had with a person who claimed to be a Christian. He

said: Perhaps it's right, these incurably sick people just cost the state money, they are just a burden to themselves and to others. Isn't it

best for all concerned if they are taken out of the middle [of society]? Only then did the church as such take note." --Mark v1.0 (talk) 00:30, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Jews

Niemöller never said anything about jews because he allready was prissoned, when the nazis took the jews. --Steschke 14:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

These pictures do not fit the content of the quotes. There's no direct reference to the quotes. It's associative and construing in an influencing way. Why not just stick to the mere quotes? What do we need this Eye Candy for? -- Reginald 00:21, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

The images included clearly relate to Niemöller's life and the issues to which he spoke, and the vital imperatives of being willing to speak out against censorship and the tyrannical impulses of all those who would seek to reduce permissible human endeavors to those few which they, in their shallow, insipid, or highly misinformed assessments find comfortable, pleasing or of service to such dull, drab, dreary ambitions as they can embrace — involving the diminishment and constraint of human expressivity to levels of abject conformity or a timid whisper. Anyone who can characterize the images indicating consequences and effects of the Nazi oppressions used on this page as mere "eye-candy" rather than as food for thought, quite obviously has not thought with any clear depth upon the matter, and the use of images to enhance the interest and appreciation of people in the ideas presented upon the pages has long been encouraged here. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 05:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)