Last modified on 1 March 2009, at 23:45

Talk:Euripides

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Euripides apparently made one of the earliest references (in Fragment) to the Ancient Greek Proverb: "Quem deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

Can someone else confirm this? Pubilius Syrus certainly made a similar reference later in Maxim 911.

The Latin you've quoted is found in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations as an anonymous Latin saying, with no date given. The quote from Euripides is also mentioned in Bartlett's as a fragment taken from an unnamed work. A footnote lists variations of this quote, the oldest being from Lycurgus, making it older than that of Euripides:
When falls on man the anger of the gods,
First from his mind they banish understanding.
- InvisibleSun 22:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What about the "Sophocles draws men as they ought to be..." quote?


Reference for the Those whom the gods...

My copy of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations (1979 edition) lists it in the original Greek (which I don't know how do on my keyboard) as by our old friend Anon (entry 10:1) and comments

Scholiast on Sophocles, Antigone, 622ff. See R. C. Jebb's edn (1906), Appendix pp 255-6. Perhaps best known in Latin translation. See 199:15.

199:15 turns out to be one James Duport (1606-1679), who wrote in his Homeri Gnomologia (1660, p 282), Quem Jupiter vult perdere, dementat prius (Whom Jupiter would destroy, he first sends mad)

--NotSaussure 18:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I did some checking of many of the Greek, Latin and English sources available on the internet and discovered an error in the attributions to Lycurgus of Sparta statements which were actually quotations of a "poet" made in Oratio In Leocratem [Oration Against Leocrates] Ch. 21. line 92 by Lycurgus of Athens, who came after Euripedes, and was an admirer of him. This error probably began in one of the 20th century editions of Bartlett's and has been repeated in a few other places. I posted many of the most common variants and derivatives on the page, with some sourcing. I probably won't have time to do much more on the page today, but might do a little more here within the next week or two. ~ Kalki 09:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

For reference, the "scholiast on Sophocles' Antigone" (line 620, not 622) gives it as follows: μετὰ σοφίας γὰρ ὑπό τινος ἀοίδιμον καὶ κλεινὸν ἔπος πέφανται, τὸ ὅταν δ' ὁ δαίμων ἀνδρὶ πορσύνῃ κακὰ τὸν νοῦν ἔβλαψε πρῶτον ᾧ βουλεύεται. -- trans.:

"With wisdom the well-known and famous word was revealed by someone": -- that is, whenever a daimon prepares harm against a man, he first damages the mind of the one he is plotting against.
I've redone the ascription, making clear that it does not come from Euripides, and added the version from the Sophoclean scholia mentioned by NotSaussure. Also done a new, more literal, translation of the Lycurgus version. 130.195.86.36 23:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

"Love is all we have..."Edit

The quote "Love is all we have, the only way that each can help the other" is listed under William Arrowsmith's translation of Orestes, but I read that and another translation and found nothing like it. Does anyone know if the quote is credible and, if so, what its source is?

—This unsigned comment is by 66.45.157.183 (talkcontribs) .
It appears to be from line 298 in at least one publication of the Arrowsmith translation. ~ Kalki 09:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

UnsourcedEdit

  • Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.
  • Do not consider painful what is good for you.
  • Do not plan for ventures before finishing what's at hand.
  • Down on your knees, and thank heaven, fasting, for a good man's love.
  • Forgive, son; men are men; they needs must err.
  • Friends show their love in times of trouble.
  • Happiness is brief. It will not stay. God batters at its sails.
  • He is not a lover who does not love forever.
  • He is wise that is wise to himself.
  • Human misery must somewhere have a stop; there is no wind that always blows a storm.
  • I hate it in friends when they come too late to help.
  • I love the old way best, the simple way of poison, where we too are strong as men.
  • I would prefer as friend a good man ignorant than one more clever who is evil too.
  • If the gods do evil then they are not gods.
  • Ignorance of one's misfortunes is clear gain.
  • Impudence is the worst of all human diseases.
  • In misfortune, which friend remains a friend?
  • It destroys one's nerves to be amiable every day to the same human being.
  • It is a good thing to be rich and a good thing to be strong, but it is a better thing to be loved by many friends.
  • It's not beauty but fine qualities, my girl, that keep a husband.
  • Joint undertakings stand a better chance when they benefit both sides.
  • Judge a tree from its fruit, not from its leaves.
  • Know first who you are; and then adorn yourself accordingly.
  • Life has no blessing like a prudent friend.
  • Love must not touch the marrow of the soul. Our affections must be breakable chains that we can cast them off or tighten them.
  • Luckier than one's neighbour, but still not happy.
  • Man's best possession is a sympathetic wife.
  • Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe.
  • Money is far more persuasive than logical arguments.
  • Much effort, much prosperity.
  • Never that which is shall die.
  • New faces have more authority than accustomed ones.
  • No one can confidently say that he will still be living tomorrow.
  • No one is happy all his life long.
  • No one is truly free, they are a slave to wealth, fortune, the law, or other people restraining them from acting according to their will.
  • No one who lives in error is free.
  • Often a noble face hides filthy ways.
  • One does nothing who tries to console a despondent person with word. A friend is one who aids with deeds at a critical time when deeds are called for.
  • One loyal friend is worth ten thousand relatives.
  • Only a madman would give good for evil.
  • Punishment is not for revenge, but to lessen crime and reform the criminal.
  • Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing.
  • Real friendship is shown in times of trouble; prosperity is full of friends.
  • Short is the joy that guilty pleasure brings.
  • Silence is true wisdom's best reply.
  • Silver and gold are not the only coin; virtue too passes current all over the world.
  • Slight not what's near, when aiming at what's far.
    • Variant: Slight not what's near through aiming at what's far.
  • Song brings of itself a cheerfulness that wakes the heart of joy.
  • Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
  • The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
  • The best of seers is he who guesses well.
  • The best prophet is common sense, our native wit.
  • The bold are helpless without cleverness.
  • The company of just and righteous men is better than wealth and a rich estate.
  • The day is for honest men, the night for thieves.
  • The gods visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.
  • The good and the wise lead quiet lives.
  • The greatest pleasure of life is love.
  • The language of truth is simple.
  • The lucky person passes for a genius.
  • The wavering mind is but a base possession.
  • The wisest men follow their own direction.
  • There is in the worst of fortune the best of chances for a happy change.
  • There is just one life for each of us: our own.
  • There is no benefit in the gifts of a bad man.
  • There is the sky, which is all men's together.
  • This is courage in a man: to bear unflinchingly what heaven sends.
  • Time will explain it all. He is a talker, and needs no questioning before he speaks.
  • To a father waxing old, nothing is dearer than a daughter.
  • To generous souls, every task is noble.
  • To persevere, trusting in what hopes he has, is courage in a man.
  • Unhappiness remembering happiness.
  • Vengeance comes not slowly either upon you or any other wicked man, but steals silently and imperceptibly, placing its foot on the bad.
  • Waste not fresh tears over old griefs.
  • We know the good, we apprehend it clearly, but we can't bring it to achievement.
  • Wealth stays with us a little moment if at all: only our characters are steadfast, not our gold.
  • What anger worse or slower to abate than lovers love when it turns to hate.
  • What greater grief than the loss of one's native land.
  • When a man's stomach is full it makes no difference whether he is rich or poor.
  • Whoso neglects learning in his youth, loses the past and is dead for the future.
  • Woman is woman's natural ally.
  • You were a stranger to sorrow: therefore Fate has cursed you.
  • Your very silence shows you agree.
  • Youth is the best time to be rich, and the best time to be poor.
  • Zeus hates busybodies and those who do too much.