Last modified on 7 December 2014, at 02:48

Talk:Dante Alighieri

Return to "Dante Alighieri" page.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dante Alighieri page.


should this quote be here or under literary works / inferno? i think it should be moved because wrote it in a book, not said it.

Hm, not sure.

On another topic, here's some background on the misattribution:

The JFK quote has no real foundation in any English translation of the Divine Comedy.

Dante's arrangement of Hell does not follow any simple-minded gradation of punishment: there is no "hottest" place in hell, and the worst punishment, the ninth circle, is in fact a cold place where the lost souls are buried in the ice.

It appears that Kennedy simply misremembered the text, or more likely, had never actually read the Inferno himself.

Likely someone working for Kennedy told him what they thought the quote was.--74.131.143.171 01:04, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I would say that it wasn't a misquote at all. If the deepest circle of the Inferno held traitors, then philosophically speaking, people who maintain nuetrailty in moral crisises are traitors; both to morality and the people they aren't helping. (at least that was my take on his statement)

w:User:Ellsworth

I'm going to change the english translation of "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate." First I have problems with the word "ye" which invites mispronunciation, see dictionary.com's discussion of the history of "ye." Whether is is a good idea to translate Dante's work into archaic rather than modern English is another question. But if people want to do so, they might use a more accurate spelling:" "þe." Otherwise the translation is more accurate than most translations I've seen online. I propose using the translation attributed to Robert Pinskey on this Google Answers page.

O conscience, upright and stainless, how bitter s ting to thee is a little fault! Shouldn't this be "how bitter a sting..."?

I suggest using the one found in translations of the literature, like the one commonly distributed to schools/colleges that goes "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" seems ye is meant to be in it. Does convey a sense of you're entering hell and should abandon hope of return.--74.131.143.171 01:04, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Why some lack original?Edit

Why do some lack the original, and some have the original? ~~—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Howie spo (talkcontribs) 05:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC).

I don't know exactly, so only guess. Some people who don't know Italian may have added English translations. Some could compare with each editions and quote from both. Some could find Italian (original) version and then add their own translations - there could be several possibilities, I cannot figure them out completely. --Aphaia 06:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

this is cool and the best

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrateEdit

I've edited this...it isn't Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate. The original form is the mine.

Per me si va ne la città dolente,
per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,
per me si va tra la perduta gente.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.
Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
se non etterne, e io etterno duro.
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)

Is the spelling ogni not ogne? 50.129.30.76 21:00, 10 August 2013 (UTC)DuctusExemplo

Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.Edit

The page says "Frequently translated as Abandon all hope, ye who enter here," implying that that translation is wrong but giving no reason. Why is that oft-quoted version not a proper translation? Soap 13:46, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

"Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate" does means something like "Abandon all hope, you who enter", but I wouldn't say that "Abandon hope, all ye who enter" is a mistranslation because 1) it is widely accepted and quoted and 2) a translation does not necessarily have to strictly follow all the words in the original. ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia lists several translations; John Ciardi's is: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here." ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:21, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps it originated as more of a misremembered paraphrase than a careless mistranslation, but it is definitely a misquotation. This is not just a case of "strictly following the words" but of reproducing a reasonable semblance of the meaning: "Lasciate ogne speranza" places clear and unambiguous emphasis on all hope. Moving the emphasis from "hope" to "ye" is plainly a mistake, and the article is correct to point it out because it is indeed widely circulated. ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:45, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Ogne or Ogni and Ch'intrate or Chi'entrateEdit

So I have found two different spellings of the words Ogne and Intrate. Mainly, many other online sources spell them Ogni and entrate. I edited to reflect the other online sources. But I am no expert on this language. So, does anyone know the original correct spelling of this, or know the language enough to know the correct way to spell it. I am assuming there my be variation because of how the ends of words change based on the context of the sentence and how the word is being used... maybe this is where the discrepancy is.

50.129.30.76 20:59, 10 August 2013 (UTC)DuctusExemplo

As far as I can tell, "ogni" and "entrate" are correct. Thanks for the catch... ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Whatever might be considered "correct spelling" in modern Italian usage is irrelevant. (We also do not "quote" Shakespeare using modern English and spelling.) What matters is the language used in citable sources, and both forms may be found in the literature. (Some convenient online editions that use "ogne" and "intrate" include those at the Electronic Literature Foundation (ELF) and Project Gutenberg.)

19th century editions use "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate", but recent scholarship based on early manuscripts generally prefers "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" as the form Dante probably used. (See, e.g., the widely cited work of Giorgio Petrocchi.) I suspect "ogne / intrate" is correct but, alas, no original manuscript in Dante's hand has survived.

Because both versions appear in eminently citable sources, we should give them both, with citations. ~ Ningauble (talk) 20:16, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I asked a native, and he said "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate" is what they study in school, and what is correct today. However, Dante's Italian is 700 years old, so it is plausible that he wrote differently (that other version is not an error anyway, only rarer). ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Hottest places on hellEdit

Guys, I'm seeing that there was a discussion on the the quote about the hottest place(s) on hell. "Blaming" Kennedy for having assumed literally an interpretation that Martin Luther King Jr. had just said two months before, on April 30, 1967, in his Sermon /Discourse "Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam", in the Riverside Church, New York, where King said:

  • "I've chosen to preach about the war in Vietnam because I agree with Dante, that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal."

King was not quoting exactly, he was just, from his own interpretation of Dante, saying that the story showed that neutral people went to hell. I've found that, practically, the above discussion and refutal attempt was from a book by Alison Lewis, on which Joseph Good confidently states:

 

"Joseph", obviously ignored King's great speech on the vietnam war, as if it had never happened, and this not only shows that the author is a little bit uninformed about King's story, but also that he can make erroneous statements and claim them as facts. I mention this because this author based his argument on the "non furon ribelli" verse, as the users above. Joseph (whose understanding of neutrality revolvers around the idea of being on God's side or on the devil's side) wrote: "the hottest places in hell, at least according to Dante Alighieri, are not, strictly speaking, reserved for those who remain neutral during times of crisis. Anyway, the question, for interest of this dilemma, would be why King interpeted that, in to Dante's work, the sin of social neutrality was shown to be punished in the hottest places of hell. Maybe he was speaking, generalizing figuratively, of the condemnation of characters like Pietro della Vigna (who failed to defend his lord's honor and was accused of conspiracy against him), or maybe others.--Goose friend (talk) 02:48, 7 December 2014 (UTC)